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Guilt, betrayal, and clean hands

chronicheadache
chronicheadache

I'm back from my long break from recovery and I re-listened to Matt Kahn's brilliant video on The Will of Your Heart (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0gEyngCdF8).  He said the most self-defeating words were "God I hope ________ doesn't happen" and then he asked why didn't we want __________ to happen and who would we be if __________ did happen.  


So I thought what my __________ was and mine was "God I hope I don't cause my partner to suffer."    


Why?  Because he'd feel like I betrayed him.  


Who am I if I caused him to suffer?  A traitor.


Well, was that a revelation. I have to admit, now that I've written that down here it does seem more ridiculous and less rational, but I think we all know by now reason isn't my strong point.  Ha.  Matt Kahn did mention flipping the script and saying, "God, I hope __________ does happen", I guess to realize that we can survive it and stop fearing and obsessing over _____________ so much.  So I thought "God, I hope I make my partner suffer" and nearly had a panic attack right afterwards.  It made me feel I was saying, "God, I hope I'm a traitor and a backstabber."  


Anyone struggle with that feeling, that fear and belief, of being a traitor if your ____________ happened?  Or just that guilty feeling in general if you put yourself first or let someone feel pain on your watch?  


I also realize that a wall I hit with this codependency recovery thing is that I don't have "clean hands" like it seems most other codependents do.  They are abused, the victims, the wrong was usually done by someone to them.  I can agree that I have been abused and the victim, but Lord knows, I've done my share of my wrong.  I wronged as much as I was wronged.  I don't have "clean hands."  It seems the wrongs that most codepedents have is that they don't care enough for themselves and put up with disrespect and neglect and harm.  Well, I've been the one who disrespected and neglected and harmed others.  I've definitely done my share of using people for my own gratification and wanting to use them to fill whatever empty sad feeling in me without caring if it hurt them or not.   


Huh.  Maybe the 12 steps are for me, and the answer to that one is in whatever step is making amends to those we have wronged, though I can't seem to figure how to make amends without being ridiculously codependent and open to self-fagellation and possibly more abuse.  


I guess I need to get over this feeling that I need "clean hands" in order to feel like I have a right to put myself first even if it causes someone to feel like I'm betraying them. 


anyways, just for curiosity's sake, what is your ______________?   


mlr0853
mlr0853
I'm not sure anyone who is alive has 'clean hands'...I know I sure don't. Having used Al-Anon as a way to learn, change my behavior to a more responsible person for myself..is in a way making amends to those I interact with....there are some who I can not or do not want to speak with or see, for them I pray, and for them what ever I did in my codependent relationships with them, I try Hard not to do with new people who come into my life.
chronicheadache
chronicheadache
I love what you said about being a more responsible person for yourself to make amends, and that what you did in your codependent relationships you try hard not to do with the new people in your life. That's a really good answer. I know when I think of "making amends" I see it as I owe people things and I get into all sorts of codependency-related trouble with that type of thinking. The idea of bettering myself, for myself as well as others, as a form of amends is something I never thought of but I REALLY like it. I know I'm a more responsible, conscientious person today and I am trying harder to be a better person. That counts for something. Thank so much for your reply.
Shadow5
Shadow5
I agree - I think most of us have wronged others at some point in our lives. To be human is to have dirty hands. I've been wronged by many, starting at a young age, but despite that, I have also hurt people, been selfish, rude, disloyal, etc. I'm trying so hard to be a better person, and maybe through this effort of self improvement, we're in a way making amends for our past mistakes? My biggest challenge is trying to be what everyone else wants me to be, not standing up for myself, or even worse, not standing up for others because I'm afraid of how I'll look or what people will say about me. I hate conflict and confrontation, so I think my thing would be: God I hope I don't upset anyone. And if I do upset someone, it feels really big to me, devastating. Not sure how to get past that...
chronicheadache
chronicheadache
Shadow5 - so much of what you said resonated with me! I hate conflict and confrontation SO MUCH! I actually had to hire a relationship coach to help me figure out what to say to my partner and we're working through my fear of confrontation. Confrontation and conflict the worst, and I mean THE WORST for me.

And when you wrote, "My biggest challenge is trying to be what everyone else wants me to be, not standing up for myself, or even worse, not standing up for others because I'm afraid of how I'll look or what people will say about me" <-- that was what got me into SOOOOOOOOOOOOO much trouble last year and one of the reasons why I'm now dealing with feeling like a traitor. I was trying to be what other people wanted me to be, but unfortunately, a few of those other people didn't get along so I became rather two-faced in the process and was therefore unable to stand up for people who thought I supported them. It was such a mess.

I know I HATE upsetting people. It does seem like the end of the world when I upset someone, but I will say after that disaster last year, I realized that people clash with each other, so in trying not to upset people, we can end up lying or not being honest and when the clashes happen, our dishonesty comes up and it becomes a worse problem than us upsetting them.

It's hard, isn't it?

I agree, mlro was so right. Being a better person and any effort of self-improvement so we're not hurting people through our codependency is the best way of making amends for our past mistake. It's really, obnoxiously hard, but I'm trying, and I think it's making a difference.

Thanks so much for your reply. It's good to know that I'm not alone.
urbangardener
urbangardener
When I was people pleasing, I was not my true self, I was agreeable in ways that demeaned myself and allowed another to not suffer their consequences. Eventually, people pleasers get angry about the situation, and this often shocks the person we get angry at that we were appeasing and going along with. We have trained them to think something else about us and then BOOM! one day our real selves come out in angry ways that defeat everything.

Our false selves in order to make someone like us, love us, approve of us, change for us, is not exactly clean hands in my opinion. I think in all honesty that my people pleasing did harm others because they got away with a lot of crap due to my behaviors that they should have suffered consequences for. My false self held them back from being challenged to deal with conflict due to their behaviors and the opportunity if they took it to change for the better. I could not make them change by my behaviors but I could have let them suffer consequences of their own behavior.

So let's take your guilt and shame about having done things that are not nice to your partner. We all have to unpack this type of stuff. If we don't like how we have been, we can change. And it actually makes us accountable to others to NOT be our false selves. Yes, that is hard but it is valuable in the long run to become people we like and self admire. Yes, sometimes people get angry at us when they want us to be appeasing and agreeable and we no longer are. In the end, we are better partners when we are being true, honest, and this means to them and to ourselves (doing what honors ourselves). If you have something you need to discuss or confess to your partner, living a false life, a false face doesn't honor yourself or him. This is the problem and probably where the guilt and shame come from when we are being false and not true to honoring ourselves. I wrote this to another friend recently but find the self forgiveness you need to move away from self flagellation that keeps you tied to the unhelpful past behaviors. No human is perfect.
chronicheadache
chronicheadache
"If you have something you need to discuss or confess to your partner, living a false life, a false face doesn't honor yourself or him. This is the problem and probably where the guilt and shame come from when we are being false and not true to honoring ourselves."

Wow. I really needed to read that. I may not have been particularly excited to read that, but I needed to read that. I do feel bad for him that I'm being dishonest with him, which adds to the self-flagellation of the stuff I've already done that made him suffer. You're right that it doesn't help, and no human is perfect. I know my people pleasing and false self caused harm, and I'm ready to change that. I did hire a relationship coach who's working with me through my fear of confrontation and conflict. I don't exactly have the funds for it, but I bought enough sessions that will hopefully cover up to me actually having an honest conversation.

We're at an okay place right now. The abuse is gone for the time being and we're joking and enjoying the time we do spend together, and I'm so tempted to just let it go, slip back into the routine, especially since I know better how to avoid doing things that will cause conflict (no more looking for an apartment without him seeing it, for instance.) It's so tempting to slip into that non-confrontational flow, which I've always done in the past, but I've been so sad. So very, very sad. He has no idea. And that makes me sad for him too.

So I'm hoping this coaching thing helps. Thanks so much for your response, as always. It really, really helped.
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