I can see what yall are saying. But self is techni ally part of the word we are using. Self-worth is about how I value me. Doesnt matter how much money I have or not. Doesnt matter what anyone else thinks about me. Worth and esteem are definitely different but u cannot have a high self worth with low selfesteem. If u think bad things about urself how could u value urself highly?

Personally I think the problems ARE enmeshed. I think they go hand in hand. You have to improve how you see youself to improve either.

Hi all,

I agree, I think one of the core issues with being codependent is our self-esteem is really "other-esteem" ...it's based on something outside ourselves, when it should be self-esteem (based on our knowledge that we are just as valuable and deserve as much respect as anyone else).

For example, I'm slowly learning that my "self-esteem" is really dependent on how good my cooking is, how good my evaluation was, whether others perceive me as intelligent enough to be in the field I work in, etc (see other-esteem). If any of those aren't approved or supported by someone, my day turns bad. And if I get multiple compliments on any of them in a day, my self-esteem is through the roof, where I can start to become arrogant. But it won't ever last, because I constantly need validation.

I have a question, has anyone succeeded in developing real SELF-esteem (and moved away from other-esteem)? It's possible, right?

To me it seems like we are stuck somewhere in early childhood where imitating and pleasing mom and dad were sufficient. That is totally outward focused. Self esteem has to develop over time with failures and successes that are supported by parents. So now we have to be our own parents and allow ourselves to fail without things being ended or falling apart.

I find meditation using a certain popular teacher pretty helpful. When I feel like I failed, I remind myself that we are all made of both negative and positive. Truly human interactions are rarely perfect.

Teela - I like your question, and it is a tough question which means that you are digging deep.

BrightSide - I say you are right on target that the self esteem needs to come from our parents (or supported by parents) and in codependency the parents are not usually doing that job.

I believe that I found my own healthy self esteem from the Father God who can take the place of unhealthy parents.

In my own life I have lived through a hell on earth, and I really have been beaten down and so had many failures and cruelties that I only had value because some how I knew that the Father God cared about me. Without that then I would have been worthless by every measurement that I know of, and I would be a far different person now without that Higher Power, and I never want to go back to what I had before.

Now I do not have high or low self esteem because I know that I have problems and defects so that my self esteem can never get too high against that, and since I know that I am valued by the Father God then that makes so I can not esteem myself as low, and that keeps my self esteem in balance as healthy.

This is how it works for me.

After many years of counseling from a midlife crisis. And living in denial of codependent "tendencies." I found this website that explained it in a way I could understand.
With feeling so isolated and alone around my flesh & blood family. I sought someone who had similar experience and had found paths to the other side of pain without going into too much of my own experiences & patterns which have developed since a young age. I do not wish to scapegoat my family as they too are people with imperfections or the persons who harmed me until I was, thankfully, freed by the police. I survived.

I have many triggers which it has taken me years to recognize & adapt my responses. But feelings of esteem... worth... or significance cause me to wonder why I am still here?
My pain caused me to cry out one day as I went to work, "God, what do you want me to do?!"
Alone in the elevator I heard a quiet response, "Love people."
I try desperately some days to live and deal with people in an attitude of love. Patience and forgiveness are desired fruit. Only brought forth as I acknowledge the pain & inadequacy in myself and seek my value through the one who created me and is responsible for each breath I take.
With my senses I search for goodness in this world... a brilliantly colored sun rise, the faithful friendship and happy smile of my dog. A caring group of people as this one with each of you ~brilliant gems forming out of life's pressure and stresses. I treasure you! And hope each of you realize your priceless value to me. Thank you speaking out and sharing your lives. I say a prayer for each of us:
"God grant us the serenity to accept the things we cannot change, the courage to change the things we can. And the wisdom to know the difference." ~amen.

I do think that a faith is a great building block for the foundation of self esteem-I have been wonky with my practices this year so that is something I need to build as a habit for sure! And I am sure has been a major factor in why I have a lot of self loathing/caparisoning/not taking good care of myself going on.

@Booky I really loved reading your version and how you don't measure esteem as high or low and that there is a fine balance in this because you really don't want to have either.....this was great for me to read as I always felt I needed to achieve a high level of self esteem to "feel good" in life.

This is my area of focus for 2015......giving myself the chance to truly like myself, care about myself and my well being, and do things that are protecting, uplifting and challenging myself to be the best I can be - however that manifests. As well as feeling deeply some type of zest for life....I feel like I have been taking life as it comes vs. harnessing it and really enjoying all the bumps and scrapes, good times that come.

@K9Dame....beautiful writing.....Thank you for that!

i agree and i keep gettin hurt

Yes when we let people use and abuse us then we do keep getting hurt.

But I do not see why to blame that all on self esteem or on self worth.

What everyone really needs is boundaries which protect our self and boundaries which allow us to take chances without being trampled under.

Link http://codependentboundaries.blogspot.com/2008/08/personal-boundaries-laura-busch.html

Danger and pain is everywhere just waiting for us all, and every person has to learn how to walk through life as best as we can.

Thank you, Booky, for your response about the importance of boundaries. I was brought up with the familial idea that at home our parents were allowed to cut loose, but my brother were to be seen and not heard. And if we stepped out of line we paid-the-price. Usually for me it was from they "way" things were said and my being afraid to say anything. I am just now finding my "voice" in the world. And in conjunction I have always tried to let my children have their "say-so" jn things and allow them to feel validated.

I am very, very new to the group, (just joined a few moments ago) but I must say that while currently dealing w/ depression and self esteem issues, I really like Booky's definition of self esteem."The healthy self esteem can be such a way that even if I am poor and stupid and ugly then I am still a person of value who deserves kindness and respect. " I really needed this as I am currently at work and really feeling down. I feel empowered by the words, I am still a person of value who deserves kindness and respect.

TeelaNa - I completely relate to what you were saying: OTHER esteem vs SELF esteem. And I too have been wondering if people are/have been able to succeed at developing real, healthy, self-esteem when they come from that place of other-esteem. I am terrified that I won't be able to make that transition and will never have a healthy romantic relationship because I can't fully love myself first.

Here's a situation/question: When I am NOT in a romantic relationship, I really like who I am and am happy. When I AM in one, I don't like who I turn into - the insecurity, the inability to assert my boundaries, the anxiety, and the frequent need for validation from my partner. Is that a common thing for codependents? I soooo want to fix this problem. I don't want to be heartbroken time after time after time.