Yes I agree but I do have a different twist on it.

You say "self worth" and the correct language is "self esteem" and I really see the wording as super important.

Viewing self-worth might include how much money or property one has, or our social statue or popularity, as in how much would other people value us or how much we are worth in any such ways.

The self-esteem really is talking about esteeming our self even when we are viewed as worthless.

As like a dirt poor person in poverty can still have healthy self esteem because esteem is not based on our worth.

A really ugly person can have healthy self esteem because we must not be defined by physical appearances.

An uneducated and stupid person who can not even read or write can still have health self esteem because a person must not be defined by our intellect.

The healthy self esteem can be such a way that even if I am poor and stupid and ugly then I am still a person of value who deserves kindness and respect.

If it is just based on our own value as in self-worth then one might view their self as unworthy of being treated decently or equal to any other person.

So I suggest that you change the language and that alone will help a lot in dealing with any codependent dysfunction.

A link that I like =
http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/adult-health/in-depth/self-esteem/art-20047976

Self esteem or self worth, but I mean the same thing. Self worth to me is how much you love yourself.

Booky,

Hate to be definition police, while I value what you say Booky and I think it has a ton of relevence, I had to look it up after your explanation because I have always said Self Worth instead of Self Esteem so I wanted to make sure I knew what I was talking about in the future HAHAHA . So these are the definitions of Self-Worth and Self Esteem:
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self-worth
[selfwrth]

Use self-worth in a sentence
noun

Self worth is the opinion you have about yourself and the value you place on yourself.

An example of self worth is your belief that you are a good person who deserves good things or your belief that you are a bad person who deserves bad things.


self-worth
noun
one's worth as a person, as perceived by oneself

self-worth
noun
Self-esteem; self-respect.

self-worth
Noun

(uncountable)

The value one assigns to oneself or one's abilities in self assessment.

Recognizing one's self-worth is a necessary step to respecting the worth of others.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------self-esteem
n.noun

Pride in oneself; self-respect.
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I personally think the cornerstone of the Co-Dependency is the fact that we have low Self Esteem/Self Worth, we are willing to put aside our own comforts, feelings, etc. and further we don't believe we deserve any better and aren't worth equal to anyone else. Until we have our worth and esteem in tact we are going to probably have problems in our relationships, and always feel bad in them.....we have to know we are good, valuable, entitled to feel happy/content. However we prescribe to achieve those goals, that is what we are entitled to just as base level humans....but I believe the key is that we can't find it in anything/anyone else, it will only be attainable within ourselves and we have to build it and create it.

Anyway, my 2 cents chipped in ;)

Since it is my goal of 2015 to find mine.....I am really appreciating everyone opening up the dialogue, I feel like I am re-affirming my intent every day with every post!! So thank you. So grateful for this site!!

I stand by what I said as mine is accurate and true.

You all can have different perspective and opinions, except I just really see it as misguided to use the words "self worth" instead of "self esteem" because they do have a different meaning and to use the wrong words will give people misguidance.

A person can have self esteem while being worthless.

While we can not have healthy self esteem when it is based on our self worth.

If it is healthy then it must not be either high or low.

We have control over our own esteem, but our own worth is subject to outside pressure and arbitrary judgements.

Sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will hurt me too.

I just think that if we valued ourselves we wouldn't stay in a situation that hurt's us, just so we won't be alone.

I appreciate Booky's distinction, though I think a lot of people would thing the terms are synonymous.

When I think of "worth," I think of an objective, empirical value. "Esteem" seems to me more abstract.

Either way you look at it, the more you have respect for yourself, the less you are willing to tolerate poor treatment.

This is just a discussion so do not get the idea that I am trying to push my beliefs onto anyone or trying to control anything, because I do want to explain this better and I see this as a super important topic.

So ....... I just searched the internet and apparently lots of people are promoting the "self worth" and many say that it is a replacement for the "self esteem" and I really see that as poison, and not just poison for codependency.

Self-worth is really feeding into competition and egotism which gives a fake feeling of superiority based on worth.

Self-esteem is more abstract as self esteem is close to being an emotion and it is close to self love which is NOT based on any value or worth.

We do not love another person based on their worth to us, at least not for healthy love, but we can esteem things or esteem people even when they are worthless, or esteem our self even when we are worthless.

When things are going well as like got a paycheck coming in and got a nice place to live and a full gas tank then our self worth becomes an egotistical feeling which does nothing for our real self esteem.

Many of us here as like myself know from experience that when we hit the bottom and fall into the deep pit of depression then everything of worth or value is gone and then that is the time when we have to have some real internal feeling about our self to grab onto and that is only available when we have some shred of self esteem based on no value at all.

There are many people like Marilyn Monroe who commit suicide when she had fame and fortune, beauty and health, young age and many who loved her, and yet all her worth was not worth her death or her life. Even the great Elvis overdosed on drugs.

Our self worth can be lost or taken away, but the self esteem is only a perception of our self based on no value at all.

So I stay away from "self worth" as I see it to be just poison.

This is just my own opinion based on my own study and experience, so take it or leave it.

So, self worth is based on material concepts, like one's net income, whereas self esteem is more spiritual???

I totally get that.

You can get laid off, your worth goes down, but you still have your self esteem...

I guess if you CONFUSE worth vs esteem, then, yes, I totally agree with you.

Are you saying that the issues are so enmeshed that we as a society have even FORGOTTEN that there IS a distinction???

I think that may be at the crux of this great, friendly debate. : )

Hi Deli A,

That was smart to view it as "enmeshed" as I had not seen it that way, and yet of course that is exactly what happened - enmeshed.

Our society is so driven by competition about everything and driven by greed and consumerism that it would infect the self-help communities too.

Also I agree that self-esteem is about a spiritual aspect, and our society has really turned against spiritual things.

In my own view of my own self esteem then I embrace the idea that we are all children of God, that we are sons and daughters to the King of Kings, and so even when I feel worthless to myself then my self esteem is because the Father God forever cares about me and about all His children. As such my own self esteem is based completely on my Higher Power and without that then I would be utterly worthless indeed.

This is still just my perspective, and other people can have other views.

I am really appreciating this debate, I think I may have been mixed into the worth section, when really what I needed was esteem only....because by true definition of worth.....I am VERY VALUABLE! Wow that was an eye opener HAHAHAH

I shared this particular debate with my mom who is a walking dictionary, she said something smart to me which absolutely changed my point of view.... the problem is the word "self" in the equation. If you eliminate the word 'self' then you will be able to see the distinction better.....and I have :)

Not going to lie but for some reason my habit is dying hard.....I can't seem to stop saying self worth...hahahaha!! I have resorted to back slashing until I can unwind my habit.

While by virtue of the definitions I shared, they are interchangeable at face value....I am thinking it could be a reason I suffer so much because I am very much caught up in comparison appraisal of myself. .....which I think is why I can get so in the diggy dumps about myself....

I have gotten rid of TV, I am not on Facebook, I literally am unplugging from societies template of what is "good", "valuable", what traits physically you need to have, what you need to own, what all my friends are doing with their lives, etc. to get my head out of it and start creating my own definition.......and at the end of this journey I am hopeful to find my SELF ESTEEM :)

I too am very spiritual, and I do think that plays a major part...I think I have departed from my spiritual practices this last year which is probably the main reason of what has caused me to lapse into such self deprecation thru some rough patches this year....so I am finding my way back and on the mend!

Thanks for the great eye opening debate, it was so relevant to me for this period of time in my journey....

Hope everyone has a great holiday season, whatever you celebrate. I am hopeful this new year will bring us all closer to the goals and aspirations we have set for ourselves, and into whole health!

xxoo!

How astute to realize that as soon as the word, "self" gets in the mix, we tend to get clouded!

You know what helps me to get my "esteem" back in check? To see how I feel when things really matter... And for me, it's when my little boy runs to me with a huge smile yelling "Mommish!" (His Turkish/English name for me) or when my daughter does her back flips and say, "How was, that?"

So when others snub me, who cares.

I love me. My kids love me. When I'm having a sad day, my husband says, "I'm sorry you feel that way" and it's NOT sarcastic.

Everything else fades in the background.

Deli,

You are so blessed with those two little people who just love you because you are you...and a husband who validates you......enjoy and relish in that....

I will find all of that too I just know it.....but first I gotta find it in me....its all there waiting to be found...I just gotta open up :)

But you are right, too, Coda... What will I do when my kids get older and maybe pull the teenage snub thing... God forbid.

I need to love me in a bubble even from my kids.

You caught me! Thanks for calling me out, even without calling me out!

: D

Coming to this late...I used to get stuck in bad situations because my self worth was all about what I did for other people.
It wasn't until I had some really crap times in my life that left me unable to do anything for anyone, that I had to redefine my whole value system, I realised that we are all of value even if we don't get out of bed all day.
I have now got back to being able to give, but giving (time, money, energy, whatever) is not what I value myself on any more, and I think I have healthier relationships as a result, I just wish I could pass on the insight I gained to other people without them having to go through what I did.

To heal codependency issues, we have to face the issues and events that led to developing these habits and maladaptive behaviors.

Most codependency problems are learned as children in abusive families. So we learned that our only self worth came from what we did for others so they could survive. That makes us other focused instead of self focused.

So the root of improving our self worth has to start with understanding why we react in situations without regard for our own personal needs, wants, and life purposes.