Codependency Support Group
Codependency is defined as someone who exhibits too much, and often inappropriate, caring for another person's struggles. A codependent person may try to change, or feel shame about their most private thoughts and feelings if they conflict with the other person's struggles. If you are on a journey towards self-love, this support group is for you. Join us and find others...
A long time ago I was living with my grandmother, in an unhealthy codependency. I lacked the bravery to leave but finally did so. It was very difficult but it turned out to be one of the best decisions in my life and a catalyst for personal growth. I am sharing my story as I hope that it might be helpful to those of you who are in the midst of it still but feeling afraid or for those of you who left but feel uncertain what the future holds for you.
At first, I moved in with my mother. It was a more loving environment but it was filled with challenges and I didn't truly feel at home because I was living out of suitcases, not fully committed to being there perhaps. I then struck out and for the first time in my life, at the age of 27, I moved out on my own with my child. It was rough but well worth it. I slowly regained sanity and started to 'find' myself.
A few months later though, I resumed a relationship with my child's father which was a rocky, rollercoaster ride. I ended the relationship many times only to be persuaded to try again. He ended the relationship a few times and we tried again. We called each other names, he attacked my mental state and made me seriously question my sanity. I ended up feeling like a piece of crap around him in part because of how he treated me but in part, because of how I was treating him too. It was difficult to see where it began and ended.
I began to realise it was another codependent relationship but I couldn't let go of it because I loved him. I've finally let go. He's made lots of threats against me and I've suggested he contacts my lawyer, regarding my daughter. He won't pay maintenance for her and is using it as a way to get me to do the things that he wants. Some of them aren't even unreasonable but I hate the feeling of being bullied. Beforehand, he came up with three different excuses which made not paying maintenance MY fault, before I finally called his bluff that he simply did not have the money to pay it. At that point, the threats on his end started and I decided to cut my losses. I changed my phone number, etc.
I feel very sad as I love this man and wanted us to work as a family. I always had a sense though that something wasn't quite right and as though if we stayed together he would destroy me through his negativity and need to blame me for everything. One of my text messages to him ended up listing everything he blamed me for recently and saying 'it is not my fault' over and over again. Now, that we have no contact and we are not perpetuating this unhealthy cycle, I feel as though a weight has been lifted from my shoulders.
Oh and since I moved out... I also learned to drive, made new friends, joined a meditation group, learned to understand myself and unwind childhood traumas. Recently, I've been playing back my worst memories as a child and inserting me as an adult, explaining to that child that these things are not her fault. This is my story... so far.
At first, I moved in with my mother. It was a more loving environment but it was filled with challenges and I didn't truly feel at home because I was living out of suitcases, not fully committed to being there perhaps. I then struck out and for the first time in my life, at the age of 27, I moved out on my own with my child. It was rough but well worth it. I slowly regained sanity and started to 'find' myself.
A few months later though, I resumed a relationship with my child's father which was a rocky, rollercoaster ride. I ended the relationship many times only to be persuaded to try again. He ended the relationship a few times and we tried again. We called each other names, he attacked my mental state and made me seriously question my sanity. I ended up feeling like a piece of crap around him in part because of how he treated me but in part, because of how I was treating him too. It was difficult to see where it began and ended.
I began to realise it was another codependent relationship but I couldn't let go of it because I loved him. I've finally let go. He's made lots of threats against me and I've suggested he contacts my lawyer, regarding my daughter. He won't pay maintenance for her and is using it as a way to get me to do the things that he wants. Some of them aren't even unreasonable but I hate the feeling of being bullied. Beforehand, he came up with three different excuses which made not paying maintenance MY fault, before I finally called his bluff that he simply did not have the money to pay it. At that point, the threats on his end started and I decided to cut my losses. I changed my phone number, etc.
I feel very sad as I love this man and wanted us to work as a family. I always had a sense though that something wasn't quite right and as though if we stayed together he would destroy me through his negativity and need to blame me for everything. One of my text messages to him ended up listing everything he blamed me for recently and saying 'it is not my fault' over and over again. Now, that we have no contact and we are not perpetuating this unhealthy cycle, I feel as though a weight has been lifted from my shoulders.
Oh and since I moved out... I also learned to drive, made new friends, joined a meditation group, learned to understand myself and unwind childhood traumas. Recently, I've been playing back my worst memories as a child and inserting me as an adult, explaining to that child that these things are not her fault. This is my story... so far.
Sunny - It seems to me the very nature of codependency is to take too much responsibility and try too hard to fix things, which is part of the reason why I am stepping back. I'm willing to own my issues as far as I can identify them and take responsibility for them but taking on board someone else's as well is too much weight for me to carry. I grew up internalising my grandmother's projections and still carry plenty of self-doubt. My ex-partner said a number of things to me along the way which made me seriously doubt my sanity. Very seriously. I recognised and valued his comments which were true, like my tendency to control situations, but I think I am better at identifying projections now than I used to be.
I make plenty of mistakes along the way with my daughter too and sometimes see signs of narcissistic traits coming up in my parenting. At first, I just felt shameful and despondent but I'm moving towards thinking 'OK, I have these narcissistic traits... I have to accept that they're here to protect me right now, but are there better ways I can deal with my triggers?' I am very fearful that she will grow up screwed up in her own way because of how I parent her, but I always have her best interests at heart and try and do my best. I'm still learning.
Bella- oddly enough I did once suggest we tried counselling together and part of me would love to do it. However, I'm not sure how helpful it would be right now. I really do feel like he and I both have our own issues, most of which have to be dealt with separately. It hurts because I love him and can see the good in him but our anger and hurt get in the way.
In a way Booky represents someone I'm always looking for. I had a grandmother who could be kind at certain moments and then express her judgement towards me in unexpected moments, which had me always anticipating what would happen next. I spoke to four different therapists, including a man, and I know that I spoke to the man because at some level I expected him to 'side' with my ex and give me good reasons to try again. I was shocked when he expressed strong opinions that I should walk away and stay away along with the others. Whenever I'm at my busy workplace, I'm always looking for that one person who will think I am inferior or bad in some way as validation of my deeper feelings of unworthiness.
I have no doubt that in a sense I am 'damaged' as it is hard for me to accept kindness and compassion sometimes but I'm learning to let it in. I've spent the last few years of my journey, increasingly expressing kindness and compassion towards others who have hurt me, albeit with mixed messages sometimes too due to my hurt and anger. I see now that the most important thing is to practice kindness and compassion towards myself.
The truth is, I also fear that I will never someone who could ever love the person I truly am because I feel so inherently bad inside. Logically, I know that this stems from those projections from my grandmother during childhood. I have even tried to protect myself by telling myself a few times that I really don't want a relationship at all and that I'm happy alone. I enjoy my own company and don't need another person to 'complete' me but I want to love and be loved.
You are doing well to protect your daughter. The one thing I would mention is that I see a lot of "him" talk in your postings. What he's doing, what he's saying to friends, what they may be saying back. There is not a lot of "you" talk, which is a big indicator of codependency. I would urge you to put the focus back on you and what you want out of life. You can love somebody even though they aren't good for you. This man is clearly not good for you.
Also, try to separate your issues with him from your daughter's issues with him, because they are 2 separate things. You are not a package deal. I agree that I would not put him on the birth certificate until he can show he can be a stable part of your daughter's life. The fact that he withholds child support shows that he's not a stable part of her life. He needs to walk the talk before anything permanent should be established. However, I can see his side of it as well. Why should he pay child support of he's legally not the father? Has there been a paternity test to establish that he is? Regardless of whether you know for a fact that he is or not, a paternity test will force him to pay support.
It really appears that you are misunderstanding about the inner-child, and many people get that concept wrong.
But first - lots of people view me as just being contrary and negative, but I am only saying this to try to be helpful and to share some insight which I myself find useful, and I am not trying to project anything onto you or onto anyone.
What I was taught and learned about the "inner-child" is that means our self when we were younger, as our younger self still lives inside of our self today, so our inner child is just our self at a younger age but still living today
In that case then it can also mean our self yesterday or just a week ago as it does not have to be a young child but we also have an adult child in us too.
As like yesterday (actually both Sunday and Monday) I was depressed and unhappy and felt awful, and now today on Tuesday I am much better, so today I sooth the lingering inner child from yesterday.
The inner-child does not mean that we feel childish or some times act childish - no.
So when I look back on my inner child when he was 20 to 25 years old when I was horrible and I messed up my family and made a mess of my life then now today when I am 57 years old then I accept that my inner child of 25 was wrong and my inner child at 25 was guilty and that is just a true part of my reality.
As such I do not need to comfort or to sooth my inner 25 year old adult child, but I do need to be understanding and I need to give some forgiveness to my own dysfunctional and stupid self.
Of course my inner-child of 2 years old and 9 year old and 15 year old still gets my attention sometimes, but not as often now as it use to be when I first found out about my many inner children.
This is why I say the inner child must not be pampered or spoiled, as some times the inner child must simply accept the hard reality, and it does not kill them even if they hurt a little, as my inner children have learned how to handle it now.
I find that when the inner child concept is done correctly then it is both beautiful and very healing.
See this link:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_child
Healing means acknowledging all the pain and abuse in order to heal the way we react in situations.
Healing the genuine inner child bring freedom from needing to appear like their is any powwer in life.
Great question
Sunny
I've been thinking more about some of the things that Booky said and the difficulty is - even if I take responsibility and were to suggest some kind of therapy for both of us, doesn't that entail entering the dysfunctional dance again? I love my ex very much but I have to acknowledge that I cannot change him, it is not my place to try and change him or heal him - I can only heal myself.
I had a dream about my ex which I think actually does reflect his state. In the dream, I invited him into my house under the pre-text of giving him an apology and he grew angrier and angrier as the apology for all the the things I've said and done to him, didn't come. It seemed very important to him that I acknowledge the hurt I'd caused him. I am actually very sorry for some of the things I have said and done and oddly enough, I think that they hurt me as much, if not more than they hurt him. I also think at some level too, even though it doesn't feel conscious, I feel like he has never acknowledged my feelings but I realise that I don't need him to 'validate' my feelings. I've experienced frustration, anger, sadness and other emotions besides... don't need anyone to validate them anymore.
It is a true saying that = "Knowledge is power."
The problem is when people do not see that the actions are codependent or dysfunctional, because then that hurts them and hurts everyone around them.
This is why we need our own personal boundaries where we control our own feelings and emotions, because like with me every time I mingle with family or friends or even strangers then there is almost always some dysfunction going on, so my boundaries protect myself while I interact with their assorted dysfunctions.
The very idea that you can go some place or meet some people where everyone is healthy and nothing dysfunctional going on - is just a dream world which does not exist, because the codependency and the dysfunctions are every where.
Also to accept blame and accept responsibility and accept guilt, even when it is not justified - that is an act of nobility and of strength, and when we do that then the other people become moved by seeing it.
Might sound weird but it works.
Just like the righteous Jesus took on the guilt and the sin of others, and that is what people internalize about Christ.
There is no reason that you should re-enter the dysfunctional dance with this man. He clearly did not care enough to choose to:
>>marry you and provide both emotional and financial support
>> even be present for the birth of this child
>>provide support without also forcing you to twist and bend to his will so he can exert his control.
Now he is harassing you for parental custody so he can hurt you thru this child.
These are the actions of an abuser. Neither you nor your child owes this man anything at all.
Beating codependency also means realizing that we have the right to say, NO. That means NO to walking into situations with abusers, saying NO to continuing relationships with anyone who chooses to abuse, and letting all those NOs be totally OK. Trying to always say YES is dysfunctional and codependent. It is exactly the system in which we grew up. And we have already defined that as dysfunctional and codependent.
I noticed that Booky has touted the idea that saying, NO is tough like a wall rather than a boundary. He also claims that he comforts a 25 year old inner child. These ideas water down the theory to the point of being useless which allows Booky to replace the real theories with his own strange versions that prevent healing and growth. That is his issue. We can use these mistakes to better understand how we react codependently in our lives and react to abusers by being codependent. He provides a service in that if we find ourselves angry, afraid, or fearing to speak the truth when it differs from his opinion, we find places where we have the opportunity to heal. Beyond that, I see little of real value in such confused assumptions.
It is fact that abusers will escalate emotional abuse and resort to physical and at times terminal when their female victims assert their rights. It is fact that women are generally less physically strong than men because our bodies store fat more readily while men build muscle more readily. That is for survival of the species. Women need more fat stores to have for unborn babies to grow. Men are traditionally the ones who hunt to provide the necessary protein to allow babies to grow into adults. That means women must be more careful about asserting boundaries and staying with abusive males. Once it is obvious that their man is willing to abuse while refusing any treatment or growth, the safe option is at times leaving. This seems to be the best choice for you since the very real fear of having your child stolen to a different country is an obvious threat.
Inner child goes ONLY up to adolescent age. There is no such thing as "inner child" beyond the age of majority (adolescence and beyond). Once we reach the age of majority, we can choose how to act and see ways to get away from abusive situations, so inner child work is no longer valid. At that point, we are working on learning to live in an adult world.
The point with inner child work is to heal the child within that was forced to stuff feelings, leave their bodies to survive torment both emotional and physical, and constantly deny many realities as a way to simply survive with their bodies and minds intact. Of course, you are already reading and researching this so I dont want to rehash it all here.
It is really essential to revisit that little child that had no choices and no way to even imagine how to get away from people while still in the stage of believing that parents are equal to god. No changes or healing can ever occur from simply trying to change what you do. That means looking at every situation to worry about doing it right or wrong and never knowing ahead of time how to react. Healing the inner child lets us see the root of our issues so we react from a healthy place to care for ourselves which is the skill that we never learned in our families because we were required to take care of adults around us.
Seeking the WHY that created a dysfunctional behavior allows us to choose to change or NOT to change. We do have the choice to refuse to change. We can even try to convince others to stay in dysfunction. But real happiness comes from healing and learning to set real boundaries and be willing to walk away from anyone who tries to violate them without regard for us.
Codependency is trying to take care of others. Suggestions that you need to get anyone else to go to therapy are telling you to be very codependent. Also, suggestions that you are entirely responsible for any relationship are extremely codependent.
Frankly, I think that you see many of these issues already. You are well on your way to more functional ways that bring real happiness.
I don't know about accepting the guilt and sins of others... but I can accept shared emotions. I had a strong feeling the other day which led to overwhelming pain... I felt hurt and angry and I saw all of the people in my life who had hurt me and saw that they all felt the same way too. Something had happened in their lives they may or may not be aware of that hurt them badly. I felt an overwhelming sense of sadness and pain and the thought of their suffering... of course it went away and was replaced by my usual mindset but it was illuminating for me, even if it was difficult to handle because of the flooding of emotions that took place. I felt real compassion.
My problem at the moment is that I am in a sort of limbo in the sense of wanting my ex in my life and not wanting him at the same time. To him, despite his parents' divorce and all the shenanigans that took place with it, he feels like he had pretty much a picture perfect childhood. To me, it seemed like it was a childhood filled with pain, conflict and rejection. If anything, even worse pain than I encountered in my own childhood. I can feel that pain and I can understand why stuffing it away would be a very important survival mechanism for him. For some reason, it was different for me... I learned to feel pain of myself and others even more acutely as I reached adulthood.
At the moment I do have this feeling like a 'craving' of wanting to contact him and I am acknowledging it but not acting on it. I think if I do contact him, I should be in a different place first.
I've just read your message. As much as I do love the idea of contacting my ex and going to therapy, it does seem very co-dependent. I also don't think I am in a good 'place' to be making any decisions. My ex did actually want to marry me when he discovered I was pregnant and we became engaged but I broke it off. I know that I broke his heart but I was very confused as it was an unplanned pregnancy and I wasn't in my right mind. Although things seemed good between us, something didn't feel quite right and I needed to back off. To be fair, back then I was quite immature in my thinking and just needed some 'space' to work out what was going on with myself. He became angered by my decision and called me delusional and smeared me to all of his friends. He said a lot of classic narcissist statements about how I would not have any more friends, no one would want to be around me, etc etc.
Fast forward to the future, us trying again... one marriage proposal very suddenly a week or so after we started trying again and another marriage proposal after we had an argument. It just didn't feel right. As lame as it sounds, sometimes some of his actions just 'didn't seem right' and I'd have a strange feeling in my gut. I had a very real fear of marrying him and I am not sure if it was because of my reservations about some of his behaviour or my own issues with intimacy.
For now, space seems like the best option as it is allowing me to heal and see things more clearly. It's just really really hard!
Alana
I am very often contrary to your ideas because you are repeatedly so negative.
You are forever preaching the word "No, no, no" as if a codependent person does not already know very well the concept of "No, no no" by heart - which we all do.
And you keep preaching to breakup, breakup, break up, leave them, divorce them, break up, as that is your one and only option - which you call a boundary!
I do say those are just being unnecessarily tough as like building a wall between people.
In my life I have had my fill of being tough, and especially the garbage about tough love, because people today believe they can trash or degrade anyone and call it as "tough love" when it is just being cruel and unloving.
My perspective is that everyone needs to stop the toughness, and lets try a better way, as in compassionate love, forgiving love, hopeful love, trusting love, and lets get rid of that horrible concept of being tough to other people, by telling everyone "No, no, no" or by breaking up with anyone and everyone that you do not like.
If the husband is dysfunctional then he is the weak one, and weak people need help and support instead of toughness.
As children we were expect to ignore our gut instincts. They are there to protect us. I applaud you for paying attention to your gut. You can stay safe as long as you pay attention to those feelings. They are born of noticing little things that are off which we were meant to notice so we could have safe, loving relationships.
I know you were not advising me to go into therapy with my ex. Your wording was very clear that you suggested the reverse. I re-read what I wrote and realise that I worded my reply badly so apologies for that!
Because I do have those feelings for my ex I do have the desire to go for therapy (and did so a long time ago but he and I both led the idea slide) together as Booky suggested but I know that making the suggestion is codependent as it's still me trying to be the 'fixer'..
I agree that we were taught to ignore instincts. Here logic= stay the hell away from my ex. Feelings = not remotely logical!! Still, I've done well to stay away for this long. It's been almost four weeks now.
These things are also all total lies. Living k ife telling lies for our ease is a very weakness. It is doing anything to "keep the peace". We can never learn to be our true authentic selves while we live lies.