thanks cherly very true. so nice of you to comment so nicely. my sister has been a real problem for my self esteem and I just have to remember she is who she is and I am who I am. the rights cant always be perfect but the list I think is meant to help people see that they do have rights. some of us get into a place that we feel we have no rights and this list can be an eye opener. you learn who will respect your rights and have the right to stay away from those that harm your well being. but boundaries can become walls. they can be to loose or to restrictive. neither way is the best for us or others. I have been in both places still trying to find middle ground.

Sassybabe - you judge correctly! This is the best part about a diverse support grroup like this is the variety which allows us to see different views without needing to be constantly putting down others for those differences.

It is our freedom to take in what we need as we are ready for it and not a moment sooner.
It is our f reedom to apply all that we learn in unique ways that suite us uniquely.
Like many things in life each indivual is unique. Therefore; we grow and bloom in our own ways with our own unigue colors and fragrance.
It is clear that your beauty goes deep. Thanks for being willing to share it with us.
Take what you need and leave the rest.
Li

I just love the way you phrase that. I will read that reply I over again for my benifit!
Thank you for speaking clearly for us to learn from your wisdom.

A thought occured to me. Then I read your post and totally forgot.

If we consider family as a group who may behave any way they wish towards other family including us without consequences, are we not simly continuing the cycle of abuse started long ago.
Our parents and other adults got away with abusing us becase of suchn iingrained beliefs. We can choose to be the generation to stop the cycle of abuse. The key is choosing.
No one expects others to be perfect unless they are actively abusing insme waylarge or small. That means we abuse ourselves with such bbeliefs- well that is enough personal revelation for me right now.

Remember too that others frequently project, gaslight, and triangulate when they are afraid to do the real work which recovery requires.

Thank you for honoring us with opportunities to learn and grow from your honest and carefully spoken words

Sunny

I have been feeling guilty about my previous comment and so I want to make amends here.

That list might be helpful to some people but it is contrary to the principles of treating the codependency.

When we tell other people how to act or how they must speak then that is trying to control the other people instead of rightly controlling our self.

Trying to control others is a basic dysfunction in codependency, while controlling our self is the healthy kind of boundaries for healing the codependency.

That is what is wrong with that list.

You can't control what other people do, but you can teach them how to treat you with way you want to be treated. That is the real trick, isn't it? Still working on that one myself.

Perhaps if we view other people or some people as like a pet that needs to be trained, but I do not view that as a healthy thing to do.

Cheryl,

You have hit it perfectly. We don't have any control over others actions
All we can do is refuse to continue interactions with someone who treats us as anything less than a valuable human being with feelings, ideas, values, and worth in this world.

Say we continue in a conversation where the other person constantly takes a position totally opposite to ours, even when that opinion comes from sound therapeutic practice. By allowing anyone to constantly put down, we are communicating that we deserve such disrespectful treatment from them. We can, explain how such behavior demeans our very soul and spirit, request that communication remain respectful, and walk away or ignore any person who contulinues to choose to use demeaning language.

If we continue to interact while they put down everything, we are encouraging them to continue with codepedent behavior towards us. That is also enabling them to stay stuck in unhealthy interactions with the world outside which keeps them trapped in a codepedent dance of abuse with us. As they fall more easily into negating, fewer people find their company life affirming. Thus we bind them to ourselves by accepting constant put downs.

Like an enabling spouse of an addict helps them stay stuck by ignoring the issues, we keep them stuck to us each time we engage with the negatives.

What I find is that the vast majority of the world population is dysfunctional and codependent, so there is no real way to separate from the rest of humanity unless we live in seclusion with big walls all around us.

THEN if and when we do control our self then the other people begin to see that we are not participating in the drama and we are not acting like they are - then they will see and hear that we are different and that way they learn to respect that and that is our victory.

So I can agree that is kind-of training the other people, but that is only teaching by example and not be controlling the other people.

And some other people simply never learn, but those that do not learn are the ones who become the social outcast by their own dysfunctions.

So then if we wanted to help that one outcast then we tell them that they must learn to control their self because controlling your self is the cure, and it is the only cure.

We do not need to run away or to hide away from the outcast or the misfits of this world, because then we would be stuck up snobs.

And even abusive people need to be confronted and take away their abusive power, and that can not be done if you can not stand up in front of them.

The willingness to talk it out or "negotiate" is often seen as a weakness by abusers. There is no compromise involving abuse. Get away.

The basic rights of a relationship is a great tool for people to use to look for in finding good relationships. It's also a tool to weed out bad relationships.

Too many people don't know what a good relationship consists of and how to look for one. It's a great start. Not too hard to figure that one out.

It needs to stop mattering what any abuser views or thinks about any thing.

The willingness to talk it out or "negotiate" is always the right thing to do, regardless that it might be seen as a weakness by any abuser.

When you do any action or fail to do what is right based on your view of any abuser then that means you are still being abused in your mind.

Just because some abuser views things as weakness then that does not make it as weak.

AsTimeGoesBy,

I see that you read thru them carefully. They are very basic at the core. All come from basic treatment of another in the manner in the way that we wish to be treated. Nothing extra to remember at all.

One could easily boil the entire list down to care for other the way that one wishes to be cared for ourselves.
Of course, one must FIRST care for oneself to know how to care for others. If I treat myself with kindness like a valued human being, then I know what kindness will make others feel like valuable human beings. There is no way to understand how to kind until we accept that we deserve to be treated kindly and recognize unkindness and turn from it out of respect for our human self.

God; the Universe; A Higher Power, created each and every human being to be unique and with great value. Each is meant to bless the world in a unique way. No one who came before or will come after can offer those unique blessings in the place where each has been placed. Allowing anyone to behave abusively toward us damages that blessing and thus the world beyond each person.

Hi Sunny: Actually, they're very basic guidelines and extremely useful in setting your own individual boundaries. Another useful piece of information from The Womens Center is the article below where it states the abuse victims typically leave.

http://www.thewomenscenter.org/content.asp?contentid=537

Below is the power wheel of abuse that is used. It is interesting that making light of the abuse and not taking the female's concerns about it seriously, and shifting responsibility for abusive behavior are all part of the abuse--sounds much like what we are told from someone here. Umm.

http://www.thewomenscenter.org/content.asp?contentid=540

Really excellent links AsTimeGoesBy!
It certainly is very true that abusers will try to blame the victims. They also try to convince them to stay in the abusive relationship and accuse victims of being wrong unless they stay and attempt to set boundaries. As we know, such behavior b victims only escalates the abuse.

The abuser escalates abuse the moment he feels that he is losing control. This is why so many victims end up seriously injured and even dead from trying to set boundaries or stop abusers.

yes the rights booky are not to control other ( or should not be) they are to protect ourselves and realize that we have the right to say no or avoid situations that harm us. if we try to use them to control others then it is a code behavior