Good articles. Thanks for sharing

I really don't know how to reply to this. It's a very discriminatory statement and very much blames people that were abused and groups them all into abusers in waiting. It is an awful thing for people that have alot of difficulty in life to have to think of.

For me I have really had to learn the hard way that I should not judge others as codependent and others that judge me as codependent are being very judgemental and perfectionist. I am neither an enabler just because I don't/can't speak up for myself alot of the time.

For me I've had to realize that my own stuff is my own stuff and I will deal with that on my own. Because I struggle in life so much shouldn't mean that I deserve to be rejected forever.

One thing I sort of see that get's lost in Codependence talk is that humans are meant to get things wrong and hopefully learn from their mistakes. It is the nature of humanity to make mistakes and I think codependent people make more than most. There needs to be more of a sense of forgiveness within society and relationships which is lacking and possibly enabled by the codependence theory.

There is a real possibility that codependent people are that way for life. Does that mean that we deserve to be alone because healthy society only sees us as abusers in waiting?

I haven't read the articles fully but even the suggestion that I am an abuser is really offensive to me.

Hi,

It is hard to read/hear and try to objectively evaluate myself in the role of abuser as well as abused. I guess where I could potentially see it applying is self-abuse, that is not treating self well, or treating self as secondary to or less than others.

I think what I do not believe is that having learned codependency from family upbringing or whatever, means that codependent people will become abusers. Some may, but IMO it does not necessarily follow that untreated Cos will definitely become abusers. I think some are very cognizant of not wanting to hurt others. Just my take on it.

Shar

I appreciate the OP for putting up the links, but I tend to agree with Jonota. I have now been in 3 abusive relationships. One of them very violent, physically and sexually. I have never abused my partners or anyone else for that matter, rather been so giving and agreeable that I have been able to recognise that I too may be co-dependent.
I worked as a social worker for years, and when I first graduated, the popular thinking at the time was that children who were abused where highly likely to become abusers themselves. This, of course, have been disproven now - I tend to think the articles above, given time and some longitudinal research, will be disproven too

The point in the opening post is that if the codependency is NOT treated THEN then the codependent person will become an abuser them self.

I see it as a call for urgency, that we do need to treat the dysfunctions before our dysfunctions hurt other people.

If the codependency is NOT treated then the codependent person will have to continue living in denial and lacking healthy boundaries and will continue living with their unresolved issues and those dysfunctions will turn abusive if they are not treated.

It is a simple concept - as like if one does not stop the leak then their boat will sink.

Hi,

I understand your point, but just do not happen to agree. It is a broad generalization to say that all untreated codependency will eventually turn into abuse. I am skeptical of many broad generalizations. To me, it is like the logic of "Bill lives in a large building, so his apartment must be large" lol

Shar

Hi Shar

I wonder if you want to talk about this further, as otherwise it can be just your opinion against my opinion, but I say you are not correct, and I also say that I might not be explaining this very well.

When I say abuse and abuser then I do not necessarily mean turn into a pedophile or a criminal child abuser because abuse can be smaller in scope as like just becoming a mean person who is mean to other people.

What I am trying to say is that if a person is truly codependent having unhealthy boundaries and unresolved personal issues and out of control emotions then they are NOT going to grow out of the codependency, and the dysfunctions will hurt one-self and the dysfunctions will interfere negatively into every relationship and there is no way to get around that.

I have family members who refuse to treat or even admit to the codependency problems, and as such they have become abusers and mean persons.

Codependency is progressive, in that it grows, and if it is not treated then it grows into a worse condition, and it will indeed turn the abused person into an abuser them self.

If a person does not treat their codependency then it will negatively affect them self and every one around them as it keeps getting worse over time.

You may call it as a generalization, but I do not see how it could be otherwise.

Booky, I am not saying you are completely wrong, but I do believe it is a sweeping generalization to say that all co-dependents will become abusers themselves. On what evidence is this based? I reckon I have been co-dependent most of my life (although only discovered what co-dependent is) and I have always been on the receiving end of the abuse, never the perpetrator. Like I said before, when I first started in my professional career, it was generally believed in the field of child protection that most abused children would become abusing adults. This was quickly disproved over a period of about 10 years by many researchers. That wasnt to say that some of them didnt become abusers, but there were more who didnt become abusers. Some might argue that maybe the samply study was not wide enough, but the new findings came from many different reserach studies. I would say that some co-dependents MAY become abusers, but that will not be true for everyone, whether they seeks treatment or not

Hi beansprout,

apparently you and I and everyone on this board are trying to treat the codependency, so we are not in the group who refuses to treat their own codependency.

If it is just the generalization then I am willing to accept that some people might live their entire life without ever treating their codependency, but surely would not that mean that they are hurting them self by never seeking to end their own dysfunctions and thereby they are abusing them self.

I looked up this online and it does say that sexual abused people are not doomed to become sex abusers them self, but there are other kinds of abuse, as like psychological abuse and spiritual abuse and self abuse, so to become an abuser is not so hard to become.

And treatment does not have to mean a psychiatrist, because some people find relief from our religious beliefs, and sometimes a wife or husband can change or treat the dysfunctions for the codependent person. My own wife / ex wife knocked a lot of sense into me, and then I found relief in my new religion long before I ever heard of codependency.

To say that not everyone turns into an abuser because there might be some exception is rather too generous but maybe there are some, but it is playing with fire because those who do not treat their codependency surely can not live a healthy or happy life with their dysfunctions.

I suppose it depends on the definition of abuse. I don't think abuse is the core problem with codependence. I see it more as feeling hurt and feeling that others are abusing me.

To me there is a left and a right of codependance issues. Those that are agressive and those that are passive. I am personally a passive codependent, for classification sake. I get upset when people take and take and take because with me they can. Very Very rarely I will raise my voice and say no more. This is who I am.

The interpritation of what it means to be an enabler, and whether it is considered abuse of others by some, is something I strongly disagree with.

I generally think codependent behavior is rampant in society. I think there is a strong probability that it is a core part of our makeup. It maybe only just the philosophies of the time based in existentialism, gnosticism, postmodernism that is forcing the issue of being so dam independent consciously. You look at the true nature of those philosophies and they are trying to empower the capable and blame the incapable ultimately.

There is so much that determines the make up of who we are. Having just one teacher that takes and interest, or one relative, or someone we come to truely love can make all the difference.

There are genetic variables as well. We are not the sole products of our parents or gardians. Yes they have played a huge part but there is so much more complexity to life and who we are than a part of our childhoods. Even just one moment can change everything, one that is filled with so much beauty that it is just overwhelming and I believe it can change our subconsciousness.

Maybe if you could do an experiment in isolation, in something like a zoo, where you could control and view all the interactions of a creature that was abused, but I personally don't even think then.

I just got this book about amazing friendships in the animal world. Animals that have been rejected, abandoned or have been forcably isolated, or maybe they are just inately loving develop this amazing friendships with other species.

I suppose to get to the crux of it, the current theory is that we need to fix our codependence through existential means. That is not the only way but it is the way touted by this self centered society. This attituted is not playing the victim either as that is the trap existentialism try to set. Yes it is good to try our hardest to be as independent as posible in this life and not blame others easily. It is how I react to the abuse that is the point of having healthy relationships and having boundaries that I am happy living with.

The issue to me is so complex. I just really don't think it is health to label people that have problems with codependency abusers in waiting. To me it's very similar to the mindset of racism.

I was given a specialists oppinion that I am Aspergers. The codependance issues I have might be so much a part of who I am. I would fight and fight any theory that said that who I ultimately am is an abuser because I can't react to things "normally".

Interesting views though. They are just views though. Some of the views I've believed in have certainly changed over the years.

It is none of my business what other people think about me. If I was to take in other people's opinion, views or beliefs of who they think I am or might be then I am allowing myself to be codependent to them.

Hi duelforce,

my understanding of codependency and of being healthy is clearly different from yours.

I have learned to care very much about what other people think or speak of me, and that is what my reputation would be made of.

I care if my family is angry at me or if any of them loves me as the thinking of my family is very important to me.

I do care whatever my friends think about me, and I even try to be polite and courteous to strangers on the street simply because I care about what they might think about me.

In fact I find that codependency is based on the abuser (mean hateful people) who care nothing about the feelings of their victims (the ones being abused).

And what other people think and what they say and their opinions are their feelings just like our own thoughts represent our own feelings.

What other people say or think about me really is my own business, especially if they hate me or abusive to me then I am going to react to their output.

The healing of codependency means to NOT let the thinking and opinions and the feelings of others to negatively control us.

If my family and or other people see me as a stupid ugly jerk then yes that matters to me, but my boundary is that I will not let their feelings to abuse me.

But in the same way we ourselves must not be cold or insensitive to their feelings about us even if their thinking is really nasty.

When we our self become insensitive to the feelings of others (which include their thinking and their beliefs and their opinions) then we our self become an abuser.

I want to add this one more point, that if we or I or anyone does not care about the feelings of other people then we would be acting like an abuser.

This is my own opinion based on my own research.

We must care about the feelings of other people even when their feelings are mean and hateful or ugly feelings.

To "care" has both positive and negative aspects, as in we care about criminals and about abusers because we want them to be stopped or to be put into jail or whatever, because we need to care about our enemies too.

When the Bible says to "Love thy enemy" then they are still our "enemies" as that does not really mean to like thy enemy because we do not like mean and hateful people, but we must not ignore them either, and that means we must care about all other people.

This caring is even how we have wars, as like Britain cares about Germany, and France cares about Japan and the USA cares about Iran and China and we care about everyone on the entire planet, and yes that does cause world wars as it does in individual families as caring can cause lots of trouble, but that same caring is what causes peace treaties and friendly relationships and we can not reject the one kind of caring and expect to only have the better kind.

If we do not care about the feelings of any person within our own scope, then we become the abuser by being careless and unloving.

IMO.

I'm new to this support group but i have to agree with you Booky... because i myself and a codependent person that has turned abusive. I am physically and emotional abusive towards my partner. I was always co-dependent but somehow managed to get away and start a new relationship. Leaving a trail of lovers and meaningless relationships. I do not know what went wrong this time around but i'm obssessed with my partner and I get violent every time i do not get my way. I'm seeking help because I need anger management. But I've turned into a monster. I think is all those years of abuse... all that covering up instead getting to the root cause and fixing it. It's a scary thought cause when i get in my rages i lose sense of reality and do not care about anything. I'm destroying myself... my partner is abusive too. He emotionally abuses me - belittling me and making me feel worthless. I'm a very emotional person so when he attacks me i get violent. I'm trying to get better for me and my child. I grew up with a codependent mother and i do not want to pass the trait to my daughter. I hope this support group works because when i talk to friends, most of them haven't been thru this so they do not understand me.

Hi CJulie,

It is not often that some one nails me with a truly stunning comment - as like you just did.

I myself years ago got married to my high school GF and had a son and I myself made a horrible mess of my own family and got divorced and got ruined, so that was when I hit my bottom, and that is when I started to work on my own issues.

We do not become abusive because we want to, and do not even know it is abusive until some thing breaks, because when one has violated boundaries and warped feelings then we can not help but to be abusive to those around us.

You have the one great thing which is the very first step for any person in that you see and you know about the problems, as that is the one place where we all begin.

My family of origin was rough, but I had to destroy my own family before I finally saw my own need for my own repentance and for me to change myself.

I have friends and family that talk about boundaries and inner child and about feelings, but none of them seem to get the real significance of what those things really mean.

Thank you for your comment, and I say if you stay as open and forthright and you do what needs to be done then you have a real chance to turn it all around.

Best of luck to you.