morning JC, i couldnt agree with you more... some suffer in silence, some not... but i have also noticed that when we try and be positive and encourage others to do the same, you get accused of not understand pain, or not being in it yourself...
would be nice to respect others for just taking their time to be here, and realizing that we wouldnt be here if we didnt understand and experience it ourselves...
your so observant... and i absolutely agree 100% with your post...thanks for mentioning it...
hugs, and love..
~stinke~

do either of you sleep lol i agree thank you jc for posting hugs minnie

I understand your point and it's a good one. I also understand that there are times in all of our lives when we just cannot take it anymore and we need to crack a bit.

Maybe if the origional poster can give us a better idea of what they need at that particular moment it would be helpful and more productive.

Optimism is always best, hope, stength, compassion always needed but sometimes we need to depend on others to remind us, to hold us and just say they understand and to lift us back up when we cannot do it on our own.

It's hard to know where we are all "at" in our own pain as it changes every day, moment by moment

Of course we all understand what pain is but we also understand that we are all different and at different places in our acceptance and tolerance. Sometimes optimism is just an irratant and we just need to feel understood and to let the self pity out a bit.

As long as we know what is needed - we can all be a better support system to each other.

Just my 2 cents
Hugs
Kallie

jan, thanks for bringing attention to this. i have sensed the hostility toward positive posts and tried not to take it personally, but it's still discouraging.

sure i vent here and moan and groan, but i think kindness and encouragement go a long way in lifting one's spirits on both sides. it may not take away pain, but it certainly doesn't make it worse.

Hey..
I'm not saying...at all..that's it's not OK....and even good..to vent..rant..cry..whatever we're feeling. I do at times. Most of us do.
There wouldn't be much point to a chronic pain support group if we couldn't talk about pain and all the feelings that come with it.

I'm just saying..I think it's equally OK not to.
And....that someone saying....oh...." try to think of what you have to be grateful for " ( for instance)... because that is something that helps them get through hard times......doesn't mean they're dismissing your suffering. They're just trying to share something positive that works.

And..I think it's a horrible unfairness when folks are assumed not to be suffering as much as anyone else when they try to be helpful.

Hugs....jc

Oh..BTW..
Having reread my post..
I consider all of us part of " we" and " us"... so when I said " those of us "...I didn't mean me. Y'all know I have plenty of " vents". ...:-)

There is a big difference between being positive and being told to compare ones suffering to the suffering of another. I think telling someone to be positive because someone else "has it worse" that is abusive.

There are days when I wish I had cancer so I knew this would be coming to an end soon. When some jerk walks up to me and says, "at least you don't have cancer", to me that is minimizing my suffering. When someone points to another person to say, "well they MIGHT have to have surgery every year" in reply to my third surgery this year - that is really putting me down rather than saying anything positive (NO ONE here did that It was in real life).

I have even had stupid people tell me "at least you are not lactose intollerant" when they hear I have celiac.

All these things are rude. They are not positive at all. They tell us that our suffering JUST HAS TO BE LESS! And we don't have a right to our feelings.
By the way, most celiac's are lactose intollerant.

Some of us have spent so much time on our knees that they no longer bend. Yet, the medical community continues to minimize our suffering.

I see what you're saying. To me, kind of like your last post, I believe there is a balance between optimisim, reality and pessimism. We need a bit of all three to maintain some sort of sanity. Too much optimism makes you kind of delusional. Too much pessimism makes you kind of depressed. I can't really think of what too much realism makes you, but I'm leaning towards depressed on that too. Wherever you are at any given time shouldn't offend anyone. I truly believe we're all trying to help in our own way.

Sunnyb..
When someone who doesn't suffer from chronic pain says those things..I think it can be a way of dismissing our pain.

But..when someone else, who suffers just as I do..says to me.." well..think of ways that it could be worse".. they are just sharing with me something that helps them sometimes.
Now..I might not be there. I might be too in pain, or tired..to find that helpful at that time. That DOESN'T make it an attack or a dismissal on their part. It could be just what I need to hear..or something I don't particularly want to hear at the moment..
That doesn't make it wrong for them to try to offer something that helps them to me.

Am I making any sense? I feel like I can never say what I intend to any more.

Hugs...jc

Meeting someone who is really down with what I THINK I want to hear is lifting up ME not them.
I have seen most people react poorly when they are really really down and people tell them to "think positive". Mostly because that is all the world has to offer.

Sometimes we have to step outside ourselves and be with the other person and just let them be in the feelings they are having right now.

Take death for instance. Telling someone "your loved one is in a better place now" while they are crying is not the best choice. The best choice is to simply be there to sit with them while they cry. Be with them while they are angry. Be with them while they are depressed. All therapists realize that these positive words are our own attempt to tell the other person to stuff those feelings because we are uncomfortable not to actually help the other person.
Stuffing feelins is never good. They always come out in some injurous way later on.

Kallie..
I understand your concerns with what a poser is looking for.
Sometimes, we don't want positive. I get that..and I " get" it, too..:-)
The point is..folks offer support from their own experience..if it doesn't fit....we don't have to wear it. But..why resent it?

April..
The last thing you said hits the nail right on the head..

" I truly believe we are all trying to help in our own way "

That's the point.

Hugs..jc

Oops...what a POSTER is looking for..:-) :-)

I don't think there is anything wrong with positivity if it is the right place and time for it. If it is a positive post, that's great, let it be positive. But we also have to be careful and sensitive to others on this board. Some thrive on the positivity. Some don't. I applaud those who can have a positive outlook a majority of the time. It is a hard thing to do.

But like Kallie said, we are all different in our pain, in our stories, and yes in our lives. It is one thing to try to uplift someone with your positivity. But something entirely different when all that person wants is compassion and understanding and you keep pushing your positive view on them. And since we are different, don't tell me that "I can do it too," or "if I can do it so can you," if I only had a more positive attitude.

Maybe we need a little more empathy than someone with a happy go lucky attitude. Or perhaps compassion or understanding. Positivity is not going to cure me. I am more cautiously optimistic when it comes to things. Yes I vent here, but don't we all? And yes I have made some positive posts as well. Like someone said, there needs to be a balance and more of an understanding of what the poster needs at that given time.

That's just my honest opinion.

Gentle hugs,
Jenna

If a post is only about what tthe poster needs...
Well...then it's just a public journal.

I understand..as I have said...sometimes..positive is the last thing we want to hear. That still doesn't change that it's being offered as support. SUPPORT. As in....support group. I don't have to agree with how someone tries to support me to appreciate THAT they try.

If I could write my own replies..well..what would be the point of that?

Sunnyb..I hear you. I'm having a bit of trouble getting back up myself.:-) :-) :-)

When someone says after a death " he's in a better place"...... their INTENT is to comfort..no matter how inappropriate.
Can any one tell me if I'm making my point at all?
That...I'm not asking the merits of different responses..
Just saying, maybe we could look at the intended support behind it?

Hugs

I appreciate being able to talk about things without fighting, you guys.
Hugs

agree with that point, JC.

sunnyb, i've had cancer (stage 3 actually). it's no fun, but not a death sentence. i won't go into all i endured, but i did want to die at many points in the process of "treatment."

i've had plenty of people say oh, i have an injury that still hurts. well, i know their idea of hurts is different from mine, but maybe they're trying to understand. there are days when all i can do is cry.

i try to keep my personal issues in my journal and try to post things that will be of interest to the group or at least a part of it.

this is called a support group for a reason. no denying we need to vent and want understanding, but we can't chase off people b/c of judgement and ridicule of their issues or perspectives or approaches.