ok, here's your answer my friend. my guess, is that the person with Jesus was a person that didnt believe in Him. So he tried to prove Jesus wrong. he was Jesus's adversary or "satan".

the demons and spirits were copied in the bible after the bible was written esp. in the middle ages when the monks were commishened to copy the bible. the middle ages believed in stuff like that, they burned witches (which we know there are none), they beleieved in demons. so if someone was sick with a dease, like epilepsy, people thought they had demons in them. they just didnt know any better.

and i dont know why you keep up bringing lucifer...... but i guess i'll say it again. lucifer is mentioned in Isaiah. he's talking about the king of Babylon. how he was a fallen king. that's an easy one. plus lucifer is a latin name. so why is it in a hebrew bible?? it's not.... so what does that tell you.

second....... and i'll say this again. angels were made immortal. they cant die or SIN. no angel sinned in heaven. if they did, they would have sinned in the preseace of God....... do you understand??? so to cast OUT, he would have sinned IN the heaven with God. that's impossible. IF there was a satan, dont you think that God would have killed him in a split second? it doesnt make sense that there is a person called the devil. people that copied the bible just wanted to put a face with evil. they took greek and latin words to make your demons.

kiwicsi, it looks like you worship two people, or two Gods in your case. what God do you worship???? remember that God is a jealous God. have no other Gods before me. i would stop worrying about this satan guy (since we proved that there is none), and just worship the right one........

would also like to add in about the "satan" with christ in the wilderness. it also could have been a vision. Christ had to be tempted right away when he recieved the spirit so that he would be strong in the last days. so this is God's choice to have Jesus tempted. part of his plan with him you understand. God could be putting things into Christ's head to tempt him. and this was the way the bible was rewritten thru out the bible.

moorea944, while I like a good debate too, I would like to say one thing upfront: Do not accuse me of worshipping two beings. I am a Christian, a follower of Jesus Christ, he is my Saviour and my God. The only one.

I believe Satan exists and is the ultimate enemy of God. But I do not worship him and don't like what you are implying. And I certainly don't give him my time, unless I am rebuking him in Christ's mighty name.

Just out of curiosity, who do you say Jesus is? Is he one with the Father? Do you believe in the Holy Trinity?

cathyww, check out Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28. The Bible doesn't say specifically if he was greater than Michael, but it does indicate that Lucifer had a lofty status as a high angel before pride led to his downfall.

moorea, many people don't believe that the Devil exists, but they're wrong. He does exist and one of Satan's biggest ploys to make one believe that he does not exist.

Evil is here for a reason. If Satan never have fallen and remained Lucifer, sin would not be here today. There would be no such thing as evil. The VERY first sin came from Lucifer when he became prideful and decided to challenge God, which led to his fall and becoming Satan.

Believe me, Satan exists and because of his existance, sin and evil exist too.

kiwicsi, i think you took it the wrong way. i am not accusing you of anything. to answer your other question. i dont believe in the trinity. i believe there is one God, one Jesus. the Spirit of God is apart of God. God and Jesus is two different people. it says that in the bible too. do you believe differently? but you still didnt answer my questions............ if an angel was made perfect and connot sin. how did your satan come about then....... the answer is simple, he didnt.

cathyww..... Isaiah 14 is talking about the fall of the king of Babylon, read the whole thing. Lucifer was added in the bible at a later date. Lucifer is NOT in the Hebrew bible which was the FIRST bible. lucifer is a LATIN word. the word means "bright light" they are talking about the morning star, which is Venus.

How can you say that Jesus is apart from God. Jesus himself said that he and the father are one. In the beginning of John's gospel, it clearly states that in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

ok, here we go. :>) there is no other answer for what i am about to tell you. Jesus is himself, separate from God. we know this before when Jesus prays to God he says "THY WILL be done in heaven" not "my" will be done. thy and my are completely different. thy is someone else.

Jesus can't be God. Jesus prays to God. God raised Jesus from the dead. period. If God is Jesus or vise versa, who raised Jesus??? it doesnt make sense.

in genesis, it was God who made everything. Jesus was not born yet. God says "do not have any other Gods before me"

God cant be a mediator between God and man. Jesus can.

Gal. 3v20 it's saying God in one.

Tim 2v5 for there is one God, and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.

shall i say more???? there is one God, one Jesus. and that's it. the Holy Spirit is a part of God. it comes out of God.

moorea, "there is no other answer for what I'm about to tell you". That reply concerns me. What do you mean by that?

Jesus IS God. He is God the Son. While on earth, Jesus prayed to his Heavenly Father (God, the Father). Jesus was God on earth and while on earth, He was the mediator between God and man. Now, Christians are indwelled with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God too.

So we have one God in three entities--much like one person could be father, son, and husband. God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

sorry but i disagree. i'm sorry that you dont believe the truth. let me explain........

Such is the Trinitarians' own explanation of the origin of the doctrine of the Trinity. Thus traditional theology, admittedly derived from Platonic Greek philosophy, teaches that there are three gods, or three eternal parts of their god: all equally eternal, equally powerful, equally self sustaining: and yet all parts of a single personal unity. Christendom's three gods are referred to as The Trinity (an expression that cannot be found in the Bible):
'God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost; each very God, each without a beginning, each omnipotent, each separate from the others, and yet all one.'
The confusion of this doctrine describes itself as not understandable: "incomprehensible" which indeed is true.
Contrary to such traditional teaching, we find that the Scriptures constantly emphasize the Unity, the Oneness of God, as the most fundamental thing about Him - as if to warn us against any theories or concepts involving a plurality of Gods - such as the Trinity: for mankind has always multiplied his gods.

Moses said -
"Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is ONE Lord" (Deuteronomy 6:4)

Jesus, when asked what was the FIRST commandment of all, referred to these inspired words of Moses:
"The first of all commandments is, Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is One Lord" (Mark 12:29).

Paul taught exactly the same to the Corinthians -
"There is but One God, the Father, of Whom are all things, and we in Him -- AND one Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Corinthians 8:6)

Note especially that, first, he says there is one God; and that, besides that One God, there is the Lord Jesus Christ.

Clearly this shows that Jesus is not part of the One supreme God. Jesus himself constantly addresses God as "Father"; prays to Him, says he himself can do nothing: Jesus can only say and do as the Father instructs him.
Note again the clear and careful distinction Paul makes between the "One God" and "the MAN Christ Jesus". Christ is the mediator between the One God and mankind. He is not part of the One God. He is spoken of as something other than the One God. He is spoken of, even in his present glorified immortalized state, as a man.

Again, we find God Himself specifically and repeatedly emphasizing His Oneness through Isaiah, such as appears in the following verses -
"I am the Lord, and there is none else: there is no God beside Me" (Isaiah 45:5)
"I am the First and I am the Last, and beside Me there is no God... Is there a God beside Me? There is no God: I know not any" (Isaiah 44 6 8)
"I am God, and there is none else . . there is none like Me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things not yet done" (Isaiah 46:9)


Christ told his disciples to pray: "Our Father which art in heaven" (Matthew 6:9)

so you see my friend, you are wrong in that case. i dont know what else to tell you. God in one, Jesus is one. i'm sorry you dont see the truth.

God IS one. Simply stated, I don't think you understand the power of the trinity. Right now, it's too deep for you.

lol lol no problem......... i know God is one. Jesus is one too. they are two different people. the bible says so. even with all of the verses i gave you, you still dont understand. it's not me my friend that doesnt understand........ but it's ok. i love a good debate anyhow,

have a good weekend.....

You too. We have different beliefs and I'm just sharing like the others on here. Good debates are good and to let you know, I'm not angry and am not insulting your inteligence. I'm just mentioning that there are some very, very deep topics in the Bible and this is one of them.

Stay warm.

thank you PenquinPeru. i'm glad that me and you can share our beliefs with each other and others on the board. it can show others what is out there. and that we can have a good, friendly debate on what is very important to us both. i'm glad you posted your thoughts. thank you for sharing with us.

God bless............