I hear that, we are all sinners saved by the grace of God constantly misused. Coating with gold, and making dumb idols that they can worship is why I think.

Also, keep in mind there is no such thing as perfection except when God is involved. We're just humans prone to sin. Does a real Christian have a deep desire to sin? I don't believe so. As I said before, God knows the heart. He knows that people aren't perfect and we do fall away from time to time. That DOES NOT mean we are automatically condemned if we were to die in that state. Think about it. Didn't Jesus Christ pay the price once and for all?? He was crucified for our sins and nothing can take that away.

I'm sure you're referring to the possibility that a true Christian who strays in life can permanently lose their salvation? That is not possible, because God has given the Holy Spirit to all true believers as a guarentee to ones salvation.

Look at Matthew 7:21-23. It says in entirely in the NIV: "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day (Great White Throne Judgment), 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Yes, that is one of the most serious passages to me. However, think about this: Anybody can utter God's name. A person who pretends to be a Christian can say that. Other religious people have said those words from time to time. But that's empty talk to God. Keep in mind, preachers have said it too. Also understand this as I have mentioned it before, preachers for example, aren't necessarily saved. So understanding that, this particular preacher would have a nasty surprise as he faces God on judgment day because God knows that he never accepted His Son in the first place.

Now let's go to James Chapter 4:3,4. What does it mean to be a friend of the world? Yes, it's what you think--copying what the world desires. Can a real Christian become a true friend of the world and abandone God by going back to their old ways? The answer is no. Once again, it's because of the Holy Spirit.

Yes we sin, that's part of being human. God will not spew us out of his mouth just because we're not perfect. That's how come Jesus Christ was crucified in the first place. He loves us and understands that each of us sins. As I said before, that's not a license to sin anytime we want to, but it also tells us that sin is a human nature and perfection is NOT mandatory.

As for the Church of Laodicea you are referring to in your finishing sentence, the church had Christians who did nothing. They were neither on fire for the Lord or were a refreshing place to go to. The spewing out of his mouth was the indication that the church was going to lose his blessing and DOES NOT refer to a loss of salvation. Those two are two entirely different things.

scratch, you're right. It's not the physical symbols that count, but worshipping the Lord. A physical picture or a statue doesn't matter is just that. The Lord is the only one we worship. Worshiping a statue is the same as worshipping an idol.

Whether you want to call it once saved, always saved or Eternal Security, or whatever, here is my thought on this.

When Jesus died. He became sin who knew no Sin. His blood paid sin's Price and Penaty for mankind if the receive Him as their Personal Saviour. If a person is saved, they are His forever. We are Born into the family of God "Spiritually", just like we are born into our "Physical" family at birth. You can't lose who you are Physically in your family and neither can you lose who you are Spiritually in God's family.

I believe any person who says "then I can get saved and live like I want to" isn't really taken Salvation seriously in the first place. I am an ex-biker, alcoholic and drug user. Read my Profile if you wish. I have been changed through the Power of the Holy Spirit and, I no longer want, need, or desire the drugs and alcohol. I don't go where they are and, I have been blessed to be alcohol and drug free now for 35 years this past September. Jesus' blood cleanses me from all sin, past, present, and future but, I still ask forgiveness for sin everyday, because we commit sin of "commission and of "Omission. Remember the Bible says that "he that knoweth to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin". Do we always do what is right, all of the time ? Definitely not. I am glad I have an Advocate with the Father that pleads my case for me every day. Thank God for the Freedom, the Joy, and the Liberty that I have in Jesus.

Oldbiker

Yes,we are all sinners prone to sin-So what do you think God meant when he said he would spew us out of his mouth? literally? Of course not!
So please tell me what that means and please give me scripture that tells us that the Holy Spirit will keep us saved.- Because I' may be wrong-
but i've re-read from Acts where the Holy Ghost first fell -and on- and I haven't come across a promise that no matter what you will have a continual salvation. KJV Matt 7:23 says And then I shall profess unto
them, I never knew you:Depart from me,ye that work iniquity!!!
I prefer the KJV & it makes a litttle bit of a difference, HUH?

What was the reason Simon believed and was baptized?
Act 8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

IF we have really accepted Jesus Christ as our personal Savior and have REPENTED and asked forgiveness, He will grant that. However, once done and we are loving our Lord, how are we behaving? We are changed. Temptation remains but with the help of the Holy Spirit we can resist the temptation. We want to behave differently and we are filled with joy in doing so. Love the Lord with all your heart, all your soul, all your being and love your neighbor as you love yourself. If one does that, there is not falling away.

Amen

I would love to believe in this once saved always saved theory
But show me scripture that says this-that there is no falling
away, that no matter what the holy spirit keeps us on the straight&

narrow and will not let us fall. God still gives us free will even
after we are saved. Nobody can pluck us out of the Fathers hand...
but that doesn't mean that we can't leave on our own accord.

I stick with what I said. However, if a weak person grows weary and blasphemes the Holy Spirit, THAT cannot be forgiven in this life or the life to come. There is a scripture or two that seem to uphold your insistence.

I was reading Acts two nights ago and I found this part where Israel would not obey God. Their hearts turned back to the gods they had in bondage of Egypt. God stayed with them the entire time they where in the wilderness. They did not repent. They were stiff necked. They did not enter rest at the Promise land, they died in the wilderness.

Act 7:39 To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust [him] from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt,

I do believe once saved aways saved, because the difference lies in the heart of the person and why they believe. Simon believed in the power of lots of things, the Holy Spirit was just one more thing to him, something he could obtain like the other things he dabbled in like sorcery. Some people got tired of waiting on Moses so they didn't think anything of turning to other ways for their salvation. Today many are falling away because they say Jesus is not the only way.

What I am saying is just like Peter did not know Simon's heart when he believed and was baptized,until Simon wanted to buy the power of the Holy Spirit,their are many people who say they believe and we do not know sometimes the wheat from the tares but God does because He knows the heart and why they say and do what they do.

In Timothy it talks about those having a form of godliness but they deny the power. This is like those who were stiffnecked in the wilderness who did not comprehend that God was the only God and He alone had the power to save them. It is also like Simon who was amazed at the miracles accomplished through God but he did not understand the power either. Timothy also says they are always learning but never coming to the knowledge of the truth.

2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Jesus said My sheep hear My voice. I can see how someone can think they are a Christian because I grew up that way. I did not lose my salvation and then gain it back. I never had it to begin with. I thought my father fell away because he was a deacon that decided there was no God and nothing happens after you die, the worms eat you up and that is all. and like my children. I would venture to guess that my father was a Christian like I was a Christian growing up. The difference comes when we are tested with fire and the truth stands out and faith grows stronger.

MeloNC, early this morning you said that people don't like to believe Satan is alive and well. You're right and it's too bad many churches beat around the bush with that issue. Overall, the problem in today's church either believes it's fine to hate the sinner and the sin or loves the sinner and the sin. However, what the Bible indicates is that we should love the sinner and hate the sin.

Kay-I agree the difference comes out when we are tested-ABSOLUTELY
That is what Satan begins to do from the moment we choose "GOD"_ I
believe, however ,The Bible teacches us that if we don't keep a close
enough relationship with our LORD (constantly praying and staying in
the word) that little by little Satan can wear us down to where we let
a little bit more and a little bit more of the world inand b/f you
know it,you might miss a church service here,and this there-AND SATAN
KNOWS OUR INDIVIDUAL WEAKNESSES!! He will know exactly which buttons to push and who/what to set up as our roadblocks once he gets us down on that first punch. So...2 things can happen- pick yourself up REALLY FAST - HIT your knees ask GOD for forgiveness- Of course forgiveness
is there- OR That stumble turns into a flat on your face
you resist all help- DEVIL IS JOYFULLY TRYING to show you a GOOD time back in the world (of course....all of this can take months or years) AND you're GONE !!!! Church pews are a thing of the past and you live
as fast and hard as you can so you don't have to stop and think about what the consequences might be-- Because that was me and even SATAN
couldn't convince me that I would die in the state that I was in and
go to heaven- AND NOBODY WOULD EVER CONVINCE ME that I never had
"true salvation" Because I had felt the Holy Spirit just as many times before and just as real as I did that night that I begged God to please take me back- even though I didn't deserve it and was so scared that he wouldn't. But I felt that same spirit extended to me again just as real as I felt it as I prayed right before I sat here to type this reply .
But I really do feel that this "once-saved-always-saved" is a doctrine
Satan uses in the churches today to make some Christians be able to
sin under the "we all sin and fall short......." and never try for
the kind of spiritual holiness that maybe God is going to require of us????? Paul mentions more than one time speaking to the different churches in the "New Testament" Phill.3:14-16 Basically saying (I believe) that our strives should be for perfection- that is where our
"mind should be" also in Heb 6:1 It again speaks of the same thing. I
don't believe Paul literally expected the readers "to go unto perfection"-but for their minds to mature to a level where I don't
believe everyday sinning is necessary at all!

Here's some Scripture that will help out.

2 Corinthians 1:21,22 "Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, get His seal of ownership on us, and put His Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come."

2 Corinthians 5:5 "Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come."

Ephesians 1:13,14 "And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit GUARANTEEING our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of His glory."

When something is inherited until the redemption, that means until we see Christ. So that passage tells us that we will have His Spirit until we meet Him.

Also to finish this post, look at the end of Matthew 7:23, Jesus says that "I never knew you..." That implies to the fact that the people he says that to have NEVER accepted Christ as Savior in the first place. Yet those people were claiming they did miracles and said "Lord, Lord". It didn't say "I once knew you" or "I used to know you", it states clearly "I never knew you".