Just FYI my H never ever bought me flowers in 26 yrs until a couple week after DDay ... Then sent them to my work... It was an obscenely expensive long stem red roses bouquet ... Did not win any points with me! I shoved them at him after I got off work.
If it's something you did normally I would say do it...
Oh, I have always hated roses... But I guess if he knew anything about me he would know that...

I am wondering ... This new found love, would you feel this way even if the OM wasn't in the picture. Kinda a territory thing?
Good Luck

Sarah - That's a very good question you raise. I think we saw marriage in a less traditional way--neither of us are overly religious, and I had said in the past I'd be OK with just being together and never formally getting married. To me, it doesn't mean that much and it doesn't change things between people (or shouldn't, IMO). But it was at least somewhat important to her, and very important to her family. So, because I love her, I got on board. I'm not AGAINST marriage; I just don't romanticize it and value it the way some people do.

So, my commitment to her really didn't have anything to do with being married or not. My commitment to her was based on my love and respect for her. That didn't change when we got married. And we didn't say "till death death do us part"...neither of us believe in that, nor did the officiant. There are too many cases of unhealthy relationships (abuse, etc.) and this feeling of being "stuck." We didn't want to "stick" each other. We vowed to love each other as best we could for as long as we could. We vowed to respect each other. And we vowed to be good to ourselves and each other. It's not a contract, but a promise.

Being "open," we felt, meant exploring our sexuality in a healthy way. And it meant truly trusting and respecting each other. I mean, what shows more trust than allowing your spouse to be with other people physically but having an understanding that we always come back together? To me, it felt empowering and freeing. We didn't want to restrict each other...we just wanted to respect each other's needs and trust that our bond was strong enough to deal with issues of jealously and the like that might pop up.

When I went too far and had my EA, I shattered the trust she had in me. I said I would always come back to her, but I gave signs that I was starting to drift toward another. Probably a similar feeling to most BSs on here, even though our context was different.

And I hear what you're saying about marriage being sacred and all that. To a more traditional person, our agreement was wrong, and I respect people who think that way. I don't think it was wrong, but I do think now it was a bad idea for me (those two are different things).

Cali - Good point on the flowers. I'll probably bring her wine...I've done that a lot over the years. It's nothing too unusual. And she does like wine!

Your question on this newfound love is also very good. You could very well be right that I'm partly feeling this way out of jealousy or envy. I haven't really dug into that too deep. I do know that a big thing in my head has been this thought that I can't have her, because she doesn't want me anymore. And that, of course, makes me want her more. I haven't felt that way in recent years because we've been living the fairly normal married life (outside of the whole open thing). As I'm sure other married folks can attest to, you get really comfortable with your spouse and maybe even take them for granted...you just expect them to be "there." Now that she's not there, it's triggered some really raw feelings

Mike, thanks for explaining. Though you and I are on different pages regarding the sanctity of marriage, it helps me understand where you are coming from. I can't help but believe that if you guys had not willingly thrown situations into your marriage that would create jealousy in most people, assuming that your bond was strong enough to withstand it, that all this would not have happened. That seems to tell me that working on the bond between the two of you should have been the focus, and avoiding things that could easily interfere with that bond.

I have another question for you, a theoretical question. If you end up reconciling with your W, what do you think the marriage would look like going forward in regard to your wants to explore sexuality with others outside of the marriage? Do you think you will really be safe from history repeating itself and more heartbreak?

Single couples often commit to each other "for as long as this is going to last" every day. Is this different from the commitment you made in your marriage?

Sarah - Another good question, and one that I don't have a great answer to. I feel like this experience may have gotten all of the exploration out of me...I saw the person I became, and I hate him. This has shaken me to the core, and has me taking a deeper look at what I stand for. That said, I can't say this for certain...the brain works in mysterious ways, and me saying I don't want to explore sexually is different than me really feeling that way. It's really hard to say.

So, maybe history would repeat itself, maybe not. But I think if we do reconcile, there would be a much better understanding between us of the people that we are. She now knows my weaknesses and my flaws in a whole new way. And I now know that I am capable of hurting her, and what that feels like. And I also know that she is capable of hurting me (seeing someone now) and what that feels like.

Like Esther Perel says, I think we could start a "second marriage." Things will never be the same. This trauma is here. But our new relationship could be stronger because of this, if we truly come together. Not sure this will happen, but I think it's possible.

On your last point: I don't really know if these commitments are any different. My mindset is, "One day at a time." I don't feel either of us are beholden to the other or forced to stay with each other. Our commitment was to be kind to each other and work through hard times together, as best we can.

You wrote:

That said, I can't say this for certain...the brain works in mysterious ways, and me saying I don't want to explore sexually is different than me really feeling that way.

Welcome to the club! I would imagine that a lot of married people (and singles in relationships) wish that they could explore sexually outside of the relationship with their partner with no repercussions (and some try anyway and prove themselves wrong), but the adult in them realizes that sexual relations are not all that simple. The adult in them restrains them, and keeps many people from going willy-nilly all over the place involving themselves sexually (and more) with people outside of their relationship. Teenagers/children are much more prone to such impulsiveness; my friend who is a teacher often says that teenagers cannot see beyond the end of their noses, and I think she is right.

Where this (open marriage) often gets problematic is that few people can completely separate sex and attraction/affinity/emotion. This is where the trouble begins. Heartbreak, The tangled web. Mistrust. Destruction. Pain (you know the pain). I cannot comprehend how two people can have a happy balanced marriage with all this going on. What happened in your marriage is a good example of this. Bringing other people into your marriage has hurt both of you. Badly. Do you really want to repeat that?

If you start a second marriage, it might be a blessing if things are not the same. Maybe trying the more traditional approach and working on ways to enhance your sex life with your W, and she you instead of going elsewhere is the answer. In my world, having a soft place to fall, someone I can completely trust, someone I feel safe with, is committed to me etc. is a huge aphrodesiac. In my world, I would not want to ever wonder if my sexual performance was being compared to the flavor of the week. More food for thought.

Oops--falling off my soapbox again! ;-)

Sarah - Your insight is always very appreciated. You are very thoughtful.

You said: "In my world, having a soft place to fall, someone I can completely trust, someone I feel safe with, is committed to me etc. is a huge aphrodesiac."

Can I ask, because you were the one cheated one, is this possible with your significant other? I mean, you were clearly hurt, but have you been able to get to the place where he is safe again? Do you trust him and lean on him? Or will you never be able to do that?

The answer is yes, I can feel safe with this man. If I could not, I would not still be him well over a year past DDay. Part of that is that is because the A would have never happened but it did because of our agreement, which parallels what happened to you. The difference (other than the sex part) is that once he told me about the A, I let him know in no uncertain terms that if he did not cut off all contact with the OW, I would walk into my house and he would never see me again. He immediately drove to her house and ended things and went no contact and stuck with it, other than when we had trouble with her a couple of months later, but even then, I was in on everything that was written to her via e-mail (I even helped him compose e-mails) and also privy to everything she sent him. She did not let up, and she made things very difficult for us for a while. She sent him another e-mail in November 2014, and has stalked us a bit since then, but we ignore her and hopefully she has gone away for good.

Also, he showed me nothing but respect, kindness and has been completely transparent. He has no history of cheating in the past. He was married before and during that time, he worked in various locations away from home as a young doctor. Several women gave him the opportunity to cheat, but he did not. I don't think what happened with the A in our relationship would ever have happened had we not had the Platonic dating arrangement. Having been married for as long as he was, he was unaware how aggressive, scheming and manipulative some women can be, and right off the bat he met one of those online. I would go as far as to say the OW is a sociopath, and the Cluster B types are known for being charming. He erroneously thought this woman could be his friend and he shared a bunch of very personal information with her (about us) and she used that information to pounce on him via his vulnerabilities with the intent of breaking us up. Before he knew it, things were going farther than he intended, he was seeing red flags, and he came to his senses, and confessed what had happened to me.

Perhaps the two differences in how things did happen with me and how things happened with your W might make some difference in whether she will be able to trust again. I see those differences as:
#1 she discovered your affair, whereas my boyfriend confessed when I had no idea.
#2 you did not cut off contact with the OW when you knew you had overstepped your bounds with your W. Instead you secretly kept contacting her. This kind of thing really can destroy trust.

Those two things might make the difference, but then again, perhaps your W will be able to trust you again. I hope she can trust you again, as I feel that you learned a big lesson here. But you are going to have to be extra vigilant to make sure you never go down that road again, and you need to be sure that you can. You need to have an open marriage in another way---open communication. No secrets from now on.

I might add this---

I will never ever agree to a Platonic dating relationship agreement with my boyfriend or anyone else in the future. I have learned my lesson. Had we not had that arrangement, all the heartache would never have happened.

Post DDay, we made the decision together that any friends of the opposite sex that either one of us has have to be friends of our relationship. This will prevent any slip-ups in the future. It has also caused me to cut off contact with a couple of my exes who were friends of me, but one in particular was not a friend of the relationship between my boyfriend and I. He also had to end one of his friendships with a woman who clearly was not a friend of our relationship and had the hots for him, though he was not attracted to her.

This is about making each other the priority.

Thank you, so much, for sharing all of that

You are very welcome. :-)

Quick update: W and I were going to get together tonight and talk in-depth (and she said MAYBE I could stay over, depending on how things went), but stuff has gotten crazy at her job (someone just got fired, really intense workload, etc), so she says she might not have the capacity for it tonight. I understand and respect that...her head needs to be in the right place. So, we'll see...

Be patient, very patient. I know you will. :-)

We're going to get together tomorrow and talk. I hope it goes well...I'd really love to stay over with her and cuddle her all night long. But I'm also afraid I won't like what she has to say and it will be painful.

Hoping to find strength for this. Telling myself that either way, I'll be OK. Her and I can't be in limbo forever...if she wants to move on, that's OK. I'll just need to do the same.

You very well might find that at least knowing may make you feel better, no matter what the outcome. Where you have been is sort of like someone who is waiting for a diagnosis (or not) of a serious illness. The worst part is when you don't know. Even with an unfavorable diagnosis (outcome), it helps to know what you are facing so you can begin dealing with it instead of being in limbo.

And you are right, either way you will be OK. Eventually. It just will take time.