This is a very complex issue. I basically agree with you, but want to think it through a bit before saying more.

BTW, my MIL is living with me and my wife. She is almost 92; her body is weak but her spirit is strong! My mom, not so well on either front, but she still lives with dad.

I totally agree with you on this issue! There is a point where a caregivers refusals to use opiates to relieve pain (under the mistaken belief that these meds only speed up death), putting them on life support for breathing, feeding, keeping them on O2 when they clearly want nothing more to do with masks and other paraphilia, forcing them to continue with medications that have side effects,
well the list goes on and on.

I find it especially troubling when a professed Christian refuses to allow a loved one to pass by using these measures when they claim to believe that Jesus paid the "entrance fee" to heaven for everyone who chooses to accept it.

And your right about caregivers guilt.

There is another issue. When parents end up in need, some caregivers abandon their lives totally.
They dedicate their entire lives to care for an elder. As the elder approaches death (which is inevitable), they can't let go of their "position" as the caregiver "angel" working alone thru the night despite all trials and tribulations to provide care.
It is so easy to become lost. To lose sight of the fact that this work must end and that end being comfy for the elder is part of their job.
It is more selfish than guilt. We have to always keep sight of the fact that this journey will end.

I agree with Sunny 100%!

Hospice RULES!!!!

Comfort measures only!

Let me say this one thing the dying person is the one who decides when they WILL not to be in this world any longer if they are allowed by THIER loved ones to reach that end. LOVE ENDURES ALL THINGS! SURRENDERING TO ALL THINGS and leaving it in the hands of god who takes what is his own.

When a caregiver has poured out all the care and love to the dying and they are finally standing alone in the room and detached from the one who they cared for until death something beautiful happens in that moment what seemed like a empty shell of the caregiver who felt they had nothing left to give suddenly are filled up full this is gods way of giving back to the one who emptied themselves out for the love of another so I will have to tell you unless you are determined to finish the process out to the end you will never know what god gives to those who love beyond themselves.

Hello Ice,

I'm going through the same thing with my MIL, she's been in the end-stage Alzheimers stage for 3 years now. A year ago they entered her into the Hospice care program at the nursing home. She's basically just a shell of the woman she used to be. She doesn't open her eyes anymore, doesn't communicate in any way.

My husband has a very hard time going to see her. It makes him physically ill every time we go. I don't want to see my MIL suffer like this anymore either but for whatever reason God has, she's still with us.

I can understand where you're coming from because we both feel if there's no quality of life whatsoever..... well. It's not for me to say. Just wish we could have her back to what she used to be.

I am so in agreement with this and always state that the doctors have found ways for us to live longer, but without any quality of life.
I watched my father dying from a hideous and unknown illness for 21 years!!!!
Little by little, this mysterious illness kept taking parts of his body. By this is it acted like ALS.....ALS starts on the inside and goes out with paralysis. My dad's illness was akin to ALS, but worked on the outside going in.....same effect tho. within 2 years, my dad was confined to a wheelchair and limited use of his hands. My dad would have attacks that almost killed him several times.....but the doctors were able to help him survive, only to be left with more paralysis.
My dad underwent countless tests and procedures that were painful and lengthy. The doctors shook their heads after 18 years and sent him home to die. He begged for Dr. Kevorkian on several occasions becuz he was to weak to take his own life. Then came the day when he was like a newborn baby several years into the illness......couldn't do ANYTHING for himself (he lost control of his bowels and urine and refused to wear diapers.....mom had to lift him on and off the toilet). The sad part is my dad's mind was totally in tact......Sooooooooooo...he was trapped in his body with a working mind. My mom was primary caregiver and took care of him around the clock in their own home.
They blew through their life savings and was grateful for free meds, motorized wheelchair, hoir lift, and car equipment for transporting him to doctors appointments.
If he sneezed, my mom ran him to the doctor (this is a bit of a stretch, meant to explain that she ran him to the doctor for everything).
For the last 2 years of his life, he was blind in his left eye and only had 20% vision in his right eye. His eyes hurt so bad that he kept them shut most of the time (he had mackulate degenerative disorder which he received shots directly in his eyes to slow it down). He was so hard of hearing and the hearing aides virtually did nothing. He only had the use of a half of one lung.....the other one shut down. The doctor said that the only thing that kept him going beside his stubbornness was he had a strong heart. My mom took extremely good care of him.....not a single bed sore. However, she lost her health and had to have him placed in foster care through the VA becuz he did not qualify to use their nursing home and my parents could not afford a private nursing home.

My dad passed away 17 months ago (Thank God).......and I don't mean to sound mean......but I feel he is at rest at last.
We were not with him when he passed and to this day, my mom said she wished we would have known (the caregiver at the foster care refused to let us know......those places leave a lot to be desired.....not the greatest, but it was all we could afford) becuz she would have had him taken to the hospital to be revived.
I told my mom that dad had had enough and that it was more than time to let him go.
I believe he is in a better place and is whole again. He is with my brother and other loved ones. It baffles me that my mom would want to keep him alive with absolutely NO quality of life.
My parents were not close at all. All they did was fight. My dad was very abusive......more so with his sickness. All she did was complain all the time, but waited on him hand and foot.
I helped as much as I could from 800 miles away. I went to visit a few times a year or when he got to the brink of death. I called all the time and helped out financially as much as I could.
I can understand the difficulty in losing the ones we love.....but to see them suffer for years is insane and inhumane!
This is just my experience.

Your loved ones are transistioning from this world to the next. Many times we see THIER broken bodies but give no thought to THIER souls that are going back to we're they began in the presence of god our father

Im so sorry for what you had to go through Blank. I'm so grateful my parents both want as little done for them as possible.

My Mom is still very much alive and enjoying her life, and my Dad is too in his own little confused way!

I love them both very much and when the end is near there will be meds to keep them comfortable ONLY.

I would not DREAM of shoving a feeding tube into them or making them wear some stupid uncomfortable breathing machine.

I believe that this decision is easiest to make (ie let them go, no heroics to save their life) when both mind and body have gone. MsBlank tells what I think is the hardest case of all. The body has gone, the mind is still there, and there is a spouse (first in line to speak for a person) who wants all heroics possible to be done.

Neither of my parents wants heroics used. It is possible that, when the time comes, the healthy one will change their mind. I am alone to deal with this as my only sibling passed away about 2 years ago. True, my wife will help me (I doubt I'd make it through without her!) and my sister's husband will help too. The grand kids are a bit too young to really grasp this situation and are likely to want everything done.


Many years ago, a friend of mine carried out the wishes he and his wife had. Neither wanted to exist as a shell of their former self. His wife had dementia so bad that she did not know who was who, and his health was deteriorating quickly.

Trigger alert: desperate means used. It was listed as a murder suicide by the police.

I support the "No Heroics" as stated by my parents and my MIL. My wife and I have also made the same wish known to our 2 children.


Having said all that, one still needs to go with the wishes of the person. They can request heroics if they wish, but they can not request that their children sacrifice their financial security to support the parents desire for heroics.


I agree with you. I also support a patient's right to hasten the end, as long as they make such a decision in a sound state of mind.


Gentle hugs as you deal with this very difficult time.

Well spoke Pep.

I have to agree with Pepper! There should be no shame attached to hastening the end for those who are suffering. Suffering must be defined by the one dealing with it NOT others.

It is literally torture to be forced to live in pain. Unless and until we have actually lived it day after day after minute after second after split second, we have no right to judge.

When they resuscitate someone after their heart stops,
>>they can easily break ribs (elderly have more fragile bones), >>seriously bruise muscle and bone and
>>irritate the throat with intubation.
Most times the patient ends up living a few weeks to months trapped in that bed. That can create bed sores and serious pain in muscles that atrophy from disuse.
Not all pain can be relieved with medications. And for some, adding pain meds would clearly bring up fears of hastening death in someone they are desperate to keep around for just a very short time longer.

We have to consider if this is for the patient's benefit or ours. When the patient has terminal cancer, failing heart and/or lungs, and has no hope of real recovery, are we performing these heroics to benefit them or just prolonging their suffering for our own benefit.

It is a time when we are called on to be totally unselfish and let them have the most peace filled journey. The last greatest gift we can provide them is to allow them a peaceful journey to the next stage of life.

I agree with the original poster that on week, one month is pretty selfish if they are not provided comfort and quality. We all know there is something beyond this present life regardless of religiosity. Hanging on to them is kind of like a baby refusing to be born just to stay warm and cozy for a few more weeks.

Very well said Sunnybunny and others.

It is a hard subject no matter what point of view. To me, it comes down to what the law defines. Think about this, if your pet suffers then it is
within the law to end the animals life. At least Hospice has given more directive for people facing fatal illness.

P

There are now ways to artificially prolong life and that is the only reason I posed the question.

Some medical practices are barbaric. Why subject a loved one to such unnatural and often painful (both physically and mentally) methods to extend his or her life? ..... when their body is screaming to go home.

We will all die. I accept that. I don't believe I have the right to stretch my loved one's days...........artificially.

I do believe I am morally obligated to be there.....to comfort....to love.....