Agreed on the many factors contribute(money, sex, kids are the top 3 supposidly), both partners must be on the same page and the counsellor must be very good that said I still have little to no faith in them. It seems the success rate is nominal compared to the number that end up divorced anyway.

Usually try to be optimistic but this is one thing I just hold little stock in and less now that I have seen the munber of ppl here(great, warm, caring ppl) who have been through it and are still at square one headed down the divorce express.

Sometimes I think the idea behind marriage counseling is really just a visible sign to each other that both parties are willing to take action to work on the relationship. First, if you are in a marriage and one partner says they think there are issues and they want to try counseling and the other partner just flat out says no, then that tells you that the marriage is over because they are not even willing to try.

Second, if you get in to a good counselor they can help people learn how to communicate and how to respond to lessen the impact to the other person's feelings. Yes, some of the truths will hurt, and, yes, some problems cannot be overcome, but a therapist should be able to help identify which issues for a particular couple fall into these categories.

Finally, counseling can sometimes be closure for the party that wanted to work on the relationship and didn't want to give it up. If the counseling doesn't work then they can be comfortable with the fact that they really tried everything and the relationship just wasn't going to work no matter what.

Mojo..BIG Ditto! Could not have said it better! Exactly how i see it too.We are trying but it so far has only magnified the issues not resolved them.This will end up being the "last chapter" to our marriage.I have said it before and i will say it again.Counseling IMO won't enable me to love my wife as a husband should.it will not return the passion,desire,and affection she craves from me.It will however possibly help us understand the reasons why we/i was unable to make this marriage work and hopefully prepare me/us to make better decisions in our future relationships.In some ways i feel my few weeks on here has been far more benefitial than the psychoanylization i am getting from the therapist..MDA and all.This is real life people..with real life issues and real life answers to real life problems.I will take that over the "circle of trust" any day!

Savery whoa! The circle of trust is retarded and NOT MY THING. It is a gimick I heard of counsellors using, thats right counsellors I think it is stupid but since I brought it up I don't want anyone thinking I endorse it, promote it or find it intelligent. Infact it makes me wonder about Ivy league schools in general when this what their graduates come up with. Anywho rant off just no associating that with me, it belongs to the therapists.

Isn't the circle of trust one of the running gags in the Meet the Parents / Fockers movies? The crazy father-in-law uses it! :)

We went to three different counselors and are still divorced. I wanted to try. I wanted to be heard. I wanted validation. I wanted to feel that I was the most important person in the world to her. Nothing. When a persons outlook is "I can't be bothered", what can one expect?

Oops yes sorry the therapists have the TREE of trust, the circle of trust is from meet the parents. Regarless its stupid.

Communication can be angry or loving; forgiving or vindictive; unresolved or resolute; forgiving or contemptuous. Communication can happen, it is what is conveyed during that matters most. A therapist cannot change that.

Gia..oh no..not directing that towards or in association with you.My point was and is that their are probably some definate benefits to seeking "marriage counseling" of which i stated.I just feel like it's this big "magic pill" that everyone throws up when shit hits the fan.I think some people use it as a copout or crutch or definately as a bargaining tool to direct others in the path of their choosing! I'm not saying it's not good..read above..but it is used for "evil" at times too.That's a fact!

DFC, ot sounds like you did have some communication in your marriage, and it just wasn't going to go anywhere. I am aware that in mine, even without the mental illness in there screwinfg things up, we both had a tendency to avoid confrontation. Once his illness kicked into full gear, this was magnified, as I never wanted to "set him off" -- partly me not knowing how to deal with someone else's anger, partly me trying to keep him sane for his sake. None of it worked.

But conversely, in the best marriages I have seen, both parties seem to know how to argue really well -- and reconcile their differences really well.

IMHO, a Therapist is not there to fix a couple's problems, they are trained to identify issues and help work through them. Ultimately the couple must work through the issues and again, if both are not committed, divorce if inevitable. One party can't make a marraige work, no matter how much effort is put in by that one person. You can got to 10 counselors with the same result if both aren't committed.