I hear what you are saying and to a certain extent I buy it.. however when you have a longterm marriage 10+ years...surely there must have been love.

Do you just give up? Especially when there are children involved? Yes or no

I say no, you must try everything to make it work, to be able to look your child in the eye and tell them you did absolutely everything to make it happen.

I know my stbx is having a huge mid life crisis.. the marriage can't be worked on any longer... when he almost punched me out in front of our son then had me removed from our home by the police and changed the locks and filed for temp custody of our son while I was in shock at a womens shelter - I tried everything. WE had been to marriage counselling for the past 5years. why his family hated me.. did not think I was good enough for him. after 19 years together. they would passive agressively eat in front of me, insult me when he was not in the room and guess what, he did not believe me,, so I stopped attending his family functions..... hope his happy now attached to his mothers nipple again at age 46....alta la vista baby...

Am I bitter yes I am, but I tried everything to keep this marriage alive and the stbx did not. Its as simple as that, you try being in something with some one for 22 years only to find out that they had given up on you along time ago and never had the decency to tell you. You would be bitter too.

Ditto that Wick

Except I have 12 yrs.

I understand bitterness towards the spouse, and yes you have every right, but why to other DS members? That was my point...

Oh sorry I miss understood no I am not bitter to my DS friends. I guess some can't handle opposing beliefs. We may have to agree to disagree some times.

Disagreed with you yesterday but today I applaud you. Sitting in a cousellor's office and airing your dirty laundry in the "circle of trust" or whatever silly name they want to give it does not make what is said less hurtful.

Question, lets say a couple goes to counselling and one spouse says "well darling, I FEEL that OUR sex life is awful b/c often it seems you finish faster than I would like and being unsatisfied makes me irritable"...ok without all the crap that sentence means you suck in bed and I am tired of it; is it easier to hear with a STRANGER there telling you this is the circle of trust where we can say anything and not hurt each other. B.S. then why are these ppl in the marital counselling industry making so much money yet half are divorced or in the process of and the divorce rate is still sky high.

Communicate and if you need mediation get a couple that has been together 50yrs maybe they don't have a PHD BUT they stayed togther, raised kids and are still together after 50yrs.

Gia, love ya! Often times, the lines of communication are so broken off in a relationship it becomes necessary for a third party to get involved to even get two people to sit down and maybe listen to one another. Therapy is one place to accomplish that, your suggestion of speaking with a 50 yr married couple is a great one too, wish there were more of those around.

Bottom line is if both parties aren't fully committed, none of it matters.

Exactly! Both have to be committed and they MUST and I mean MUST be ready to hear some cold, hard truths. Sticking "I feel" in front of something doesn't make it any better or less hurtful. New saying can't take the heat don't bother with counselling.

so gia if the marraige counsler is married for 50 years does that count as being ok

We're totally on the same page.

Spunky, if such a thing exists then that would be a good choice, but I will say it again if are not prepared to hear EXACTLY what is wrong from your partners lips and are going to go in hysterics then nothing will get accomplished.

Sometimes a counsler could put things into a way a certain party cant understand hearing from there spouse from what I hear.But if your going to be negative about it your right it wont work.Most of the time people get hysterically upset if the other doesn take the time to listen or they are just reall out there

How would a counsellor phrase this, 1) I am not happy with our sex life, did you go out of your prime the second the ring was slipped on my finger? 2) everyday you annoy me a little more 3)sugar coat it all you want I didn't know I was marrying an atheist and this is not some little problem I can just get over 4)making me coffee is sweet it is not romantic 5)get it through your thick head family is first always 6)I wish I had thought about what kind of father you'd be before hand, I mean you are super nice and no doubt you'll love the kids but you won't instill religion, family, respect and culture in them 7) you are not dominate enough, I need you to be strong and in control stop being a puppet



SO there is a nice way to say that? Not mocking you but to get the points across I am at a loss as to how someone thinks they can say that without totally hurting the others feelings and making them close down.....especially when the answer to all of those is "why does it matter", "thats not true" and " uh well you can teach the kids that" and those answer are just sub par.

Sorry for my rant/ post

everyone's situation is completely different... i happened to think it's worth the shot and the effort and have known others who it worked for as well..if that was everyones belief there would be an even higher divorce rate.

First Im NOT a counsler but I could tell you going to one one did help some people.But the person has to be a good one.These days anyone can go to school and get a diploma or degree or maybe just be and imposter.Also the couple has to be on the same page or it will never work.In todays world alot of things can get in the way of a marraige for instance work other family members drugs kids ect.