I think marriages are worth fighting for. We all have hard times and have all made mistakes on different levels. A friend of mine went through a marriage intensive at the www.nationalmarriage.com and it saved his marriage - the intensives are created for marriages on the brink of divorce, even if you've already filed. Lmk if you want more info. Will pray for your marriage.

mommato2lilmonkeys

What kind of fear was your W plagued by? Fear of infidelity? If so, it seems it was justified. Or are you saying that it won't be easy to restore trust as she will be afraid going forward?

If you have to ask how you know if something is worth fighting for, then I'd have to question just how committed you are to healing and rebuilding.

Will it be easy? No. Will it take lots of work? Yes. If you don't think its worth the work, then I'd suggest you be fair to the W and let her go.

Possible bias: I went through trying to reconcile twice, and both times she walked away again. The second time I even restored intimacy, only to have her post a bulletin looking for bike buddies as a great way to meet new guys that same week, and decide she wanted to start dating. I cannot tell you how painful that was. So, either you are committed, or don't put you spouse through that kind of torture.

Thanks for the marriage intensive link! I've reached out to them; we are close by. Thanks for the prayers, we need them!

LostNFound, my W was plagued by deep insecurity (childhood not great) long before we were married or my cheating began (which was 4 years after marriage, in overseas military deployment setting).

I'm committed to addressing whatever commitment/intimacy disorders I have, since I clearly lacked *something* in the character department (though I feel I'm an upstanding man in everything else!).
But I'm beginning to lose faith that fighting for the marriage is going to lead to a healthy relationship, even if I perfectly heal. I guess what I'm saying is I'm committed to the work, it doesn't scare me. But I'm doubting her commitment to it: I'm trying to see the difference between understandable short-term fear generated by my betrayal and her deep-seated long term fears which may haunt our marriage forever.

I don't trust even my own feelings; I'm so afraid I may be deceiving myself!

I think I'm on your wife's side in this one. You cheated - she calls the shots regarding any possible reconciliation. She appears to have decided that reconciliation is not possible on her end, whether that is due to her issues with fear or for other reasons. End of story.

I suppose you can try to convince her otherwise, but if she is committed to divorce then that's that. And I would probably advise her to stick with the divorce plan, given what (very little) I know.

coming from someone who has been cheated on....you can't just say that now that you want to work on the marriage, so should she. It take a tremendous amount of time and effort to restore trust. If I could make a suggestion....Why don't you read some of the posts on the DS infidelity forum to see what the betrayed think, how they feel, what kind of pain they are in. It might help you get some perspective on why your wife is hurting and just how long it takes to begin to trust again. If you are truly interested in working on your marriage then no amount of time or effort should be too much.

I think if you are truly remorseful and truly want to reconcile, then you need to settle in and get ready for a long wait and a LOT of hard work. You destroyed trust. That doesn't restore just because you've had a change of heart & apologized repeatedly. As they say, you can't un-ring a bell.

I've thought about this many times. What it would take to try again, if my ex ever decided that our family is what he really wanted. Everyone is different, but I know in my case, I would need to see real change. Not in words, but in actions. I would actually see proof that my ex was willing to put in the hard work to help fix the issues that were there before the cheating, as well as the work on the consequences of his choices. I would need to see him in therapy by himself first, then later with me. I would need to see him willingly cut off ALL communications/connections with the OW. See him fully commit to his family. Give full transparency into everything he does (passwords to emails/phone texts) etc. I know that zero privacy may not seem fair, but it's what it would take. Trust would need to be earned. You would have to be willing to do this (and here's the kicker) with absolutely no guarantee that it will work to put your marriage back on track. Also, know that it may take YEARS for the memory to fade. Are you ready to deal with that? I'm not saying she should hold it over your head if she decides to give it another try, but it may take a lot of time for her to put it to the back of her mind.

You would have to be willing to do all that, because what you may not realize is all the incredibly hard work it would take her too. I know for me, it would be hard to let my ex touch me without thinking "is this how he touched her? Is he thinking about her now? Is he regretting his decision?" All the trust is gone and for me to open and feel safe enough to be intimate with my ex... well I just don't know if it would ever be possible. It certainly would take a long time to get to that point again. The pain of betrayal rips your life apart. You build an iron gate around your heart so you never feel that way again. It will take a lot of hard work, love & forgiveness for her to allow you in again .

If you are up for that challenge, then my best wishes to you. If you're not, then love her enough to let her go.

Hi @timothyfreeman - good news. Will continue to pray for you and your wife. Blessings!

mommato2lilmonkeys

Emotional, thank you. This is what has me so twisted up in knots: I feel I'm DOING everything that a BS would want:

Your words plus [my actions]: "Not in words, but in actions. I would actually see proof that my ex was willing to put in the hard work to help fix the issues that were there before the cheating, as well as the work on the consequences of his choices. I would need to see him in therapy by himself first,[Done, 2 psychologists and 2 men's groups, plus Family Counselor] then later with me.[trying to get her to go to intensive marriage therapy on my dime] I would need to see him willingly cut off ALL communications/connections with the OW [that was done ages ago in her presence]. See him fully commit to his family [I am desperate to see/care for my kids; she knows I love them to pieces and they love/perhaps prefer me]. Give full transparency into everything he does (passwords to emails/phone texts) etc. [She has access to everything. I have nothing left to hide, I welcome her looking through any and all things] I know that zero privacy may not seem fair, but it's what it would take [agree, and I care not one whit about privacy any more!]. Trust would need to be earned." [and that's what I'm trying so desperately to demonstrate; but I feel there's no more a human could do, and she refuses to see what's in front of her very eyes: a remorseful, repentant man who wants to mend his ways and his marriage]

What else can I do? Say it, I'll do it!

First, I'd say if you are truly committed to rebuilding, you need some individual counseling of your own, separate from your wife. Your OP smacks of entitlement to me, from the get go:

"cheaters are not treated well here."
interesting choice of words.
cheating is NOT condoned or swept under the rug here.
I've not seen any remorseful cheater overwhelmingly "treated poorly" here, but no one here sugar coats the horrible consequences of cheating. sorry, that statement alone says to me that you somehow feel sorry for yourself for the bad consequences YOU brought on yourself for your actions.

Second statement of entitlement:
"her dark negativity was partly to blame for my awful betrayal (no excuse!)"
well, but see you're using it AS an excuse.
"she's partly to blame."
NO she isn't.
The betrayed spouse (BS) isn't "to blame" at all.
You had a choice of where to put your genitals. Unless someone literally held a gun to your head.
It is a VERY important step that you realize that YOU chose to cheat.
Did she contribute to a situation where you felt unhappy, maybe. Very possible.
That is not the same as her being "partly to blame" for you having intercourse with another woman.
You had the choice to leave.
You had the choice to try to fix things.
You made the CHOICE to cheat.
Until you realize that and fully accept it, without putting "partial blame" on your spouse, you will NOT be able to rebuild.

Third, consider the fact that maybe she doesn't "refuse to acknowledge" that you are "committed to healing and rebuilding."
Maybe she doesn't trust you.
Rightfully so.
She should not trust you.
Throw a plate on the ground. Apologize to it. Did that fix it. No? Stupid plate, refusing to accept your apology
It takes YEARS to rebuild trust.
So yeah, maybe she's not fully on board.
Until you realize that she will heal on HER timetable, not yours, rebuilding will not be successful. She will NEVER be completely "over it." Rightfully so.

You are making a lot of excuses and shifting a lot of blame onto her.
Not possible to rebuild until/unless you stop.
Maybe individual counseling can help you see that, maybe not.

If you think you may be better off apart, then why put her through any more agony, just set her free.
If you think that you CHEATING on her is going to make her any less of a fearful person, you are dead wrong. You've instilled some fear into her that again will last years. If you can't accept that, you need to set her free.
If you, as the betrayer, don't think she, someone whom you betrayed, is "worth fighting for," then set her free.

Genuinely sorry if you don't think you're being treated well, but this is reality. If you can open your heart and mind to what she feels, and find in within yourself to put her needs, feelings, and healing ahead of your own, you might have a shot. If you can own the pain you caused stop blame shifting, and really work on yourself, maybe you have a shot. If you can't it won't work.

I would recommend you end it. I spent many years trying to recover from my wife's infidelity and my own issues resulting from it, it never worked.

Forgive yes, stay married... no.

I think if she already filed and put you out its a done deal anyways. And she has no obligation to make it work. For a lot of people including myself cheating is a deal breaker. When I learned the truth about my ex reconciliation was off the table. No way would I take her back, don't want to be the marriage police, life is too short.

It sounds like you've started a few good steps. You mention approx 2 months since your confession. How long was the affair? How long have you been in counseling? In all honestly 63 days may feel like a long time to you, but it's really barely a heartbeat all things considered. I would be so incredibly guarded that it would take a whole hell of a lot longer than a couple of months to believe my ex was truly committed to changing.

I'm afraid I also agree with HappyMama, it sounds like there still needs be a big shift in your thinking. Your wife may have contributed in the ways in which your marriage was rocky before the affair (we all do), but she had absolutely nothing to do with your cheating. You could have just as easily chosen to sit down with her and talk about all the ways in which you were unhappy or gone to a marriage counselor then. Instead YOU made the decision to betray your wife. Since you imply that your marriage was already on the rocks, I'd be willing to bet money your wife was equally as miserable in your marriage too, but she chose to stay faithful. It's always hard to own our mistakes without trying to find someone or something to blame, but to be truly remorseful, it has to start with you.

If you want your family back, you may need to keep working for a year or more. It's up to you to decide if they are worth it to you. My sister had her marriage rocked by infidelity and it took 6 YEARS before it was no longer top of mind for her. She'll never forget, but she's finally somewhat past it.

KBB is also right. You may have caused permanent damage. For some, infidelity is like burying c4 at the foundation of your marriage. If she begins to see other people or isn't receptive at all to counseling, then any effort from you won't matter. It takes both of you to rebuild.

As a side note from those of us thrown back into the dating pool... Either way, PLEASE continue to seeing a therapist just for you. Figure out your communication issues, so you don't find yourself unhappy and cheating again. You're future girlfriend/wife will appreciate it.

Thanks happymomma, you make very good points.

Yes, I realize I'm sort of swampy in self-pity and I'm not proud of that. But dammit, I'm doing EVERYTHING I CAN to make it right. If she continues with divorce then I guess I'll have to live with that.

You're right, I made bad, bad choices and I've never (intentionally) blamed her for those choices. I'm sorry I came across as suggesting she was "partly to blame." She wasn't. I was referring to her contribution to a miserable marriage *before* cheating. You're right, I need to ask myself if I should have left her then instead of embarking on my terrible "solution." If the answer is "yes" then perhaps you are correct: i need to set her free.

Damn, this is awful. No self-pitying "awful" just awful for everyone; a whole lot of innocent bystanders too. I'm so ashamed. Double Damn.

Pal, until you accept that you own 100% of your cheating, you'll be deluding yourself

So you married a women with fear issues, you knew it going in, and you put that on her, ...

As for cheaters not being treated kindly
See above, self honesty evokes compassion