I am going to see somebody Oz. I have the ball rolling anyways. They have to call me back with an appointment. I can't take this pain. God gives me meds to help me with mental issues and now he is going to be helping me with physical issues through meds again. Maybe then I can move again. The weather here right now isn't helping much. Thanks you for worrying about me sweetie. Loves you bunches!!

Contrite--why am I not surprised at your bible?? I cannot decide which of the first bible chapters I like best.

ZB,

No wonder what happed to you. Don't know why, but God likes covenants (Adam, Noah, Abraham,.....).


Seems you had made a good deal.

Gnostics tend to believe that Jesus had attained to some form of samadhi; hence this is what is being described in Thunder Perfect Mind. Remember he spent 40 days and 40 nights in the desert meditating and fasting. This could also explain his numerous descriptions of Theophany.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7AFZXgjrgg


" Never ever ask..."

The early patriarchs; Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are actually considered by modern exegesis of the Pentateuch to be allegorical for Israel and not actual personages.

I wish I lived close to the Novus Spiritus church founded by Sylvia Bowne. Yes. The psychic. That is where I have adopted a lot of my beliefs. I read alot of her books during an especially good period in my life. Calm. Normal. If there is such a beast. Have yall heard of this church?

"Novus Spiritus refers to itself as "Gnostic Christian."[16] It states that it follows the same traditions and teachings which Jesus himself followed, yet does not exclude Buddhism, Judaism, Islam, or Hinduism. The society teaches the Biblical works of Jesus Christ while also incorporating the Gnostic Gospels (ex: Gospel of Mary Magdalene), and says that while the Bible is a "marvellous book" and should be used as a teaching tool, it is not the "unaltered word of God".

I would be cautious with Sylvia Brown and her teachings since on one hand she claims to be a follower of Christ but then incorporates Hinduism into the picture. Christianity, Islam and Judaism (the big three) are monastic and polytheism such as seen in Hinduism is considered heretical and 'heathen'. Also Spiritism is explicitly anathema to the teachings in the Bible and one can extrapolate what you will from the example in Mark 5:6-11 about the story of Legion and Jesus banishing the spirits into a herd of pigs and sending them hurling to their demise. Legion is a catch-all moniker used to denote any and all spirits besides the Holy Spirit. However if this is what moves you I would not begrudge you of it as each to their own. I don't profess to know everything but in my studies I have never held much faith in such things. As with all things approach with caution, research it and contrast it against what you do believe and the texts associated with what you DO believe in. The bible exists entirely as a teaching tool and is considered the inerrant word of God as is expressed by Timothy "All Scripture is God Breathed". Also "rightly divide the word of truth". Be wary.

I meant to include this also:

In 1992, Browne and her estranged husband, Kenzil Dalzell Brown, were indicted on several charges of investment fraud and grand theft.[53] The Superior Court of Santa Clara County, California, found that Browne and her husband had sold securities in a gold-mining venture under false pretenses.[53] In at least one instance, they told a couple their $20,000 investment was to be used for immediate operating costs.[54] Instead, the money was transferred to an account for their Nirvana Foundation for Psychic Research.[53] Browne pleaded no contest to securities fraud and was indicted on grand larceny in Santa Clara County, California on May 26, 1992.[55] Browne and Brown received one year probation each.[53] Dalzell's disposition included "County Jail 4 months with credit for time served of 21 days," while Sylvia's included 200 hours of community service.[53]

Be wary!

wow

if you aren't supposed to do repetive prayer then what about the "lord's prayer" wouldn't that be considered repetitive. same with the rosary and all the saints(no, not New Orleans Saints trading cards) prayers my mother dutifully recites every night fall into the same catagory? I will have to bring this up to her. it also explains why i fell to my knees each night saying the rosary and praying it would release me from my pain didn't work.

signed,
ex-catholic non believer in anything including a "god" if you are a believer, more power to ya.

It's not so much about repetitive prayer as it is a formula for prayer as evidenced in the Lords Prayer which can be distilled down to the ACTS formula I mentioned earlier. Basically Jesus was expressing the point that prayer should serve to glorify God and "laud and magnify his Holy name". He was lambasting those who spew long prayers in public in order to prove their righteousness and holiness above others. He said they have already received their reward here and now. Just as he lambasted those who fast and let it be known by their grim countenances in public.

I'm a fan of the saying "you get in life, exactly what you expect to get". So if you were feeling great emotionally and just waiting for the physical pain to start, your body will be most kind enough to provide pain.
Glad you are getting it checked out, but it does sound like a psychological based origin. Can you just decide that was enough pain to complete your "deal"?

Contrite, Man becoming god, is what man is supposed to do. We're' part god now...even the scumbags. As for inventing Jesus....In my interpretation, he grew up with the gnostics, went to Egypt, studied at the library of Alexendria...ASTROLOGY, which was the major science of that day. To do that you needed a math level that could do logrithyms. I believe he also traveled to India and Tibet all to prepare for his mission.
Yes, he became god, just like everyone of us can. Yes, he can be contacted for guidance. No he does not make deals.
Anyway, that's my invention of Jesus. I don't think he would be offended :-)

Bobbi3: Yes I agree ergo what I said earlier concerning the Elohim comment concerning man becoming 'as like us' once they became cognizant of Good and Evil and all things divined from the Tree of Knowledge, allegorical as it is it still holds true and is in accord with what you are saying.

We can know that Jesus in fact did exist as he is mentioned many times in "the antiquities of the jews" by flavius. Islam believes Jesus to be a prophet and calls him Isa, they believe that the christian bible is corrupt and that the real text is lost and it's name is the Injeel. They also interestingly enough believe that one day Jesus will return. Just a little side note as Islam was mentioned earlier.

Western occultists believe that Jesus had attained Samadhi as I mentioned earlier which I suppose is to merge the lower self with the higher self as illustrated in the glyph of the Tree of Life from Kaballah (jewsish mysticism not madonna). LOL As for the travels of Jesus that we will never know as there are no existing records. Keep in mind that much of what is written in the "New Testament" was interpolated and corrupted by the writers to make Jesus conform to the prophecies in Daniel and Ezekiel. However they did not understand that while there are 400 prophecies not all of them apply to the messiah and actually the pharisees held to this criteria for Messiah:

First of all, he must be Jewish - "...you may appoint a king over you, whom the L-rd your G-d shall choose: one from among your brethren shall you set as king over you." (Deuteronomy 17:15)

He must be a member of the tribe of Judah - "The staff shall not depart from Judah, nor the sceptre from between his feet..." (Genesis 49:10)

To be a member of the tribe of Judah, the person must have a biological father who is a member of the tribe of Judah.

He must be a direct male descendant of King David and King Solomon, his son - "And when your days (David) are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who shall issue from your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will make firm the throne of his kingdom forever..." (2 Samuel 7:12 - 13)

The genealogy of the New Testament is inconsistent. While it gives two accounts of the genealogy of Joseph, it states clearly that he is not the biological father of Jesus. One of the genealogies is through Nathan and not Solomon altogether!

He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel -"And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." (Isaiah 11:12)

Are all Jews living in Israel? Have all Jews EVER lived in Israel since the time of Jesus?

He must rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem - "...and I will set my sanctuary in their midst forever and my tabernacle shall be with them.." (Ezekiel 37:26 - 27)

At last check, there is NO Temple in Jerusalem. And worse, it was shortly after Jesus died that the Temple was DESTROYED! Just the opposite of this prophecy!

He will rule at a time of world-wide peace - "...they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore." (Micah 4:3)

Have you seen a newspaper lately? Are we living in a state of complete world peace? Has there ever been peace since the time of Jesus?

He will rule at a time when the Jewish people will observe G-d's commandments - "My servant David shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow My ordinances and be careful to observe My statutes." (Ezekiel 37:24)

The Torah is the Jewish guide to life, and its commandments are the ones referred to here. Do all Jews observe all the commandments? Christianity, in fact, often discourages observance of the commandments in Torah, in complete opposition to this prophecy.

He will rule at a time when all people will come to acknowledge and serve one G-d - "And it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, says the L-rd" (Isaiah 66:23)

there are still millions if not billions of people in the world today who adhere to paganistic and polytheistic religions. It is clear that we have not yet seen this period of human history unfold.

All of these criteria are best stated in the book of Ezekiel Chapter 37 verses 24-28:

And David my servant shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. they shall also follow My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Yaakov my servant, in which your fathers have dwelt and they shall dwell there, they and their children, and their children's children forever; and my servant David shall be their prince forever. Moreover, I will make a covenant of peace with them, it shall be an everlasting covenant with them, which I will give them; and I will multiply them and I will set my sanctuary in the midst of them forevermore. And my tabernacle shall be with them: and I will be their G-d and they will be my people. Then the nations shall know that I am the L-rd who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary will be in the midst of them forevermore.

If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be "The Messiah." A careful analysis of these criteria shows us that to date, no one has fulfilled every condition.
----snip---

This thread hijacking has been brought to you courtesy of TWA (Theologians With Attitude) remember to fly the friendly skies!

*cowers* I am scared of the future of the world.

Thank you Contrite for availing us of your knowledge. I love to learn, but seem to learn better when taught than when I try and teach myself. Okay. New self realization. Yuck!! Anyway........just wanted to tell you that I like the name Isa for Jesus. Thank you for sharing. Hmmm........

Bobbi..........That is my perfect picture of Jesus sista!!!! You hit it right on the head. Thank you for that wonderful description. It sounds almost poetic. Woo Hoo!!!! You rock!!

You only overtook it so easily because I had family responsibilities to see to!! I shall live to fight another day when I do not have to carpool!! ;)