If the father is not in the picture - for any reason I think that as long as the boy has decent role models he is gonna be ok but I do believe that all little boys need to have positve male role models whether it be his father, his uncles, close friends of the family or even a "Big Brother"

The same sex parent is the most influential in a child's life according to psychology... certainly if at all possible both parents should be in the child's life... abandonment is considered probably the worst type of child abuse and certainly weighs heavily on a child's mind as they internalize so much..( daddy left and it's my fault)..
Perhaps a mentoring program like Big Brothers could help him if his father isn't in the picture..x

I agree that he needs male role models because only having female role models is quite unnatural and unbalanced as well. But the problem is I don't agree with the male role models in the family as they are sexist still for one thing but also not very under standing when a child like my son has special needs (like a certain type of parenting for ADHD)

I'm just wondering though if you can really even stop social expectations from effecting a child any how. I wish to because I don't want him to grow up all messed up because his masculinity was brought into question, or because he's insecure. It's hard for a man to not have these problems in today's society when they are bombarded with messages all the time.

And it's worse when men are patting each other on the back for being an asshole basically. While I know there are good men that don't feel that way they still wont stand up and say anything. They still want to be included even if they don't agree.

Even harder for me as a girl as I've over heard my dad and his buddies in the garage agreeing that it was their god given right to cheat if the wife wasn't putting out. And they all agreed that they do it.

It's that good old boys club mentality. I don't know how much of that is blowing off some steam and I'm sure that some of them were just blowing off steam but how many men meant that as a real thought and belief? And it's rare to see some one disagree or stand up against it. Well most men that don't think that way aren't hanging out with that group any how. Birds of a feather and all that.

And it doesn't look like the media promotes anything other than the manly man bashing beer cans on his head and hanging in crowds agreeing with each other. They don't show the good men who are actually healthy of mind and don't have problems like this. I can't even think of one example of a man that didn't have some sort of issue with women or insecurity about something in the media.

Basically young boys are being told they don't have any other options this is what they are doomed to become. So why fight it? Just be an asshole and sell your true self just to prove you are a man. Or get disrespected by men if you do think differently.

I see it as all depending on their role models and who they are exposed to. It's one reason I put them in a boarding school. He's in a house with only boys. But now he's very concerned about what is for boys and what is for girls. So the insecurity about being masculine is already starting. I guess it's not just the whole father thing.

BTW my kids don't have a father because he is a drug addict. So in this case I would say it's best that their father is not around. The father himself told me that he is a life destroyer, so far he has destroyed every person's life that has befriended him. So I think he stays away for their sake.

It's hard because children don't always understand the situation. So far my son has not asked any questions about his father or even expressed a desire to see him. My daughter on the other hand has.

I realize this is a complex question. For me it wasn't necessarily just about my son, but as a statement about how I wish things would change in the world for men. I think they are being cut off from a lot of things because they are constantly under attack for their masculinity and other insecurities. They are sensitive too just in different areas then women. Some times they might be more sensitive, and just dishonest about it. Especially with each other.

Why can't this stupid cycle be broken? It's almost you are d**ned if you do and d**ned if you don't type of thing.

Sorry I went on a bit of a rant there.

I didn't even remember writing all that.

I think the gist of the matter depends on the boy, other factors being variable.

As a former boy, I truly think we are better off with a positive male role model. If the "father figure" is irresponsible, he is not appropriate. but a boy should indeed have a POSITIVE male role model to live up to.

Just my opinion, take it or leave it.

Lotsa love, and loads of kisses!

- KK

Where is their father? Savannah used to live with me and stay with her dad every other weekend. Now I see her every other weekend and she is very close to her dad. Its a good thing for all of us and he has much more money than I do and can give her everything she needs.

Why don't you try Big Brothers and Big Sisters of America. I hear its a really great program. It would give you children someone to look up too

My son doesn't live with me he lives a boarding school. But if I had if I had him full time I would look into big brothers. right now he is enrolled in a boarding school for poor families like myself, so I don't see him every day. He is exposed to what I believe are good role models but that wasn't really my point of this thread, brain turned to mush when I was righting it, so I strayed from what I was thinking and asking.

And I don't know where the father is nor do I care to. He was a drug addict among many other destructive behaviors. He is a danger to the children let alone me. Which I am an ex drug addict so I have some issues with bring him back into my life, let alone the childrens life. I would love it if he would clean himself up, but I'm afraid he is a lost cause.

I guess my question doesn't really make sense any how.

It's not like I would yank fathers away from their sons.

I was only thinking about how men would be if they weren't exposed to other men. It wasn't really about father or no father.

As for myself I don't think in terms of gender. That is why I wanted my son to be confident in his masculinity and not based on what other men or people think.

that is the point I was making but I didn't word it very well.
But the question I wanted to ask was more scientific not about my son. I threw all that stuff in there because I was tired and to lazy to edit what I wrote.

while I do think that maybe genders are naturally inclined to like certain things I think a lot of things are influenced by social norms.

Myself for an example I naturally love girly things but there were many boy things I liked too. Being a girl I have the flexibility to enjoy the best of both worlds. It's true that both my parents had certain influences on me good or bad. But boys are pressured unlike girls to fit the masculine mold.

so if that's true for a girl like me, maybe that's true for a boy like my son. Maybe his likes and dislikes will be effected by social norms instead of what he is naturally inclined to like.

It's the nature or nurture question I guess.

But also society in general is much less understanding and forgiving when it comes to men liking feminine things, like they have to be masculine 100% of the time and they don't have a choice about it. Shouldn't being a male in its self be masculine?

Not that I would treat my son like a science project I just wanted him to be true to him self, and not be afraid to pursue his own interests not things that he was pressured to because it is expected of him. But I'm sure that he is interested in 'boy' things as his true interests naturally as well. Personally I think things are unbalanced when it comes to being a male they look a little too much to the father for learning about what being a man means. It's important to have a father no doubt. I just hope it isn't the only influence that boys look to in deciding how to be a man.

I honestly think in this regard boys have a much harder time growing up than women. At a very young age they are sensitive to so much, and maybe still sensitive as an adult even though they don't want any one to know it. I am aware of the many problems that men have and women seem to be clueless about.

There is a lot of pressure on them every where, in the media, around other men and even women to fit into some kind of box.

There are men who escape unmarred but I'm not sure it's very many.

Maybe men could be happier if they weren't being infected with social pressure.

Well that's my new rant.

While I was a single mother before my children got taken away, (due to undiagnosed at the time, MH issues of my own as well as my children) I had the same difficulty. However in my situation, the father was an alcoholic and driving drunk with the children as well as other abusive things I felt they needed protection from.

However, the things you are talking about protecting your son from, are generally not things that you can protect him from. those issues are not only going to be experienced by his father (who is his strongest influence in his life) but by others as well...as you mentioned, it is a culteral issue also. Not to say it's all right for his father to act that way, but to try to deal with it by avoiding it (his father) is not going to work.

Two things come to mind. One of them is, to know whether or not you and/or your son are in counseling. It would be helpful (and provide a substitute roll model if your son works well with a preferably male therapist) for both of you; whether individual, together, or both. The trick is, finding a therapist who you and your son can work well with.

The other thing is, I think it's more important to teach your son how to stay centered within himself and make judgements on his own, whether what someone else says to him is right and true or not...and I learned, when I told my kids that, meant me, too....which is not the same as judging whether or not he has to mind your rules. But understanding why, is helpful.

Here's the name of a great book I found a little late in the game for me. But I've found, that its principles apply basically to all relationships in my life:

"Parenting With Love and Logic" by Dr. Foster Cline (and one other person whose name I can't recall) perhaps, Dr. John Townsend.

I know that last post was long so you probably missed a few things

1 I'm not keeping him away from his father because of the social issues, his father is a drug addict that is why I am keeping him from his father.

2 There is no point in going to counseling as my son does not live with me. He lives in a boarding school.

And I'm not a bad parent, I parent using psychology actually.

This is more of a unrealistic inquiry about an ideal world from an idealist. I just worded it very poorly and didn't think it out so well. Now I'm wishing I hadn't posted it from the start.

I already know that I can't change the world any more than I can protect him from it. I'm just trying to guide him into making the right choices.

I just wish that he could be true to him self and not put into a box with out suffering the back lash of society.

But I agree he needs a male role model because all children need a balance view of the world and they need to see things from both a female and a male perspective. I can be confident though that he's getting the right message since he lives in a home with all boys and one father figure. And the school really thoroughly investigates all house parents before hiring them.

I shouldn't have even asked a question like that because that's not really what I was asking. I'm just a moron who didn't realize that I didn't think all this through to the end. I was thinking about the whole nature vs nurture and then that wound up as a post.

In other words it was pure unedited and incomplete brain vomit.

So please every one forgive me.

No, doorknob, quite the contrary. That's how good communication happens, just like that! Asking for and giving clarification is the key. Hmmm....makes me think about my BF and my conflicts...hmmmm....now if I can just remember to ask and clarify next time I want to throttle him!! LOL!!

No need to beat yourself up, silly. (I'm really good at that, too)

((( hugs )))