Hi Bobby

From the other side of the coin, experiencing bp since 1984, I can understand your frustration due to not being able to change a situation....Fine Be Miserable is not the answer....it's a symptom of your wife's 'dis-ease' she didn't choose this illness.

I hear your desire to want to help, doesn't work with anxiety/depression to tell someone 'what they can do 'when in the depths of a bipolar depression it takes time for the 'chemical imbalance' to swing in another direction.

You are Absolutely Right in there are things your wife can do that will help with the shifting...sleep, showering, dressing, and maybe going for a walk every day. Food/water also plays.a huge role in health, dehydration creates depression and lack of energy...low vit D also can also be a depression culprit.

The anxiety your wife is feeling right now a Normal Person would feel!!! Selling a safe home, making decisions, trying to find a new home is Crazy Making. With all the challenges the world is facing, the past 2.5 years of covid....all these things happening create a feeling of anxiety for many...myself included.

Throw in retirement, loss of daily structure, routine....those things too are Huge Factors of a healthy life...to have this and then the next day stopping...or for a while to years this can, and continues to effect my own life quality, moods, energy level etc.

I suggest your Wife Come Here to get support rather than you writing about her....and perhaps she needs a medication adjustment.

If your wife is willing, next to your name there is an arrow, this is how you can delete your post.

Moving is huge.... One of the biggies in life... Right up there with marriage or death.. Huge

She also has an illness.... I hear your frustration and what she needs is medical help

I would suggest that she sees her psychiatrist and I would try not to lash out at her for being sick.... Big hug.... xo

Bobby, please get this book as it really opened my eyes. "Healing the Stormy Marriage: Hope and Healing for YOU when your loved one has Mental Health Or Addiction Issues" by R. Christian Bohlen. He has been there and his wife writes a little bit of her version in the chapters. It will really open your eyes and give you support. This man knows.

I want to say that your labeling of normal Jenny and irritating Jenny - my words - is not helpful to the marriage. You are struggling with how she is which I totally understand. But you are trying to fix her and go back to what you considered "normal" in the years before. I think it was not "normal" but you had your eyes closed. The big changes you guys took on are going to stress even "normal" people. This book will help you stop blaming her. Accept her illness as what it is. She can't fix or change it without medical help and you can't fix or change her by blaming or labeling her. Your attitude is increasing the sickness in your marriage. I know you want to vent, I know you are stressed but you also add to the problem. This book will help you figure out what you can do to stop adding to the problem. Maybe there is nothing you can do, maybe there is a lot you can do to help the situation but please stop labeling her normal Jenny.

And unless she had a recent head injury, she was always bipolar all her life. I don't think you "catch" this at age 66 suddenly. I think you are in fantasy to think she was ever not bipolar. Educate yourself on this. I think one is born with the genetic material that causes bipolar. It is a brain disorder. She has always had it. Maybe you didn't notice or she hid it or had years of darkness that seemed just Jenny. My friend drank to excess for years before finally being diagnosed bipolar at age 60. She managed her brain disorder through alcohol and then got mental health treatment and stopped drinking. But she had been always bipolar with a late in life diagnosis which is what I am trying to say to you.

Thanks for everyone's comments.

1. Book I will try to get the book on stormy marriages.

2. Sudden Yes, this was a dramatic change and her sister insisted my wife had a stroke, but the doctors found none in symptoms or brain MRI.

3. Disruption, change. Agreed these are disruptive, particularly to her, as someone who loves, absolutely loves routine., something I've just come to realize. In the past I asked, why do we have to go to the same island, same hotel, same restaurants on vacation but I went to make her happy. Had she been different, with the vacine with Covid, I'd have picked some vacations places to go, and had fun with different places and experiences, and it was frustrating this would have to be bad and stressful . With kids you're limited, we weren't.

3. Suggestions, help, I understand the illness or disability notion. That said, its hard when someone has the seeming ability to change. Imagine a man who drinks regularly or looks at porn, or has an affair and when his wife says that's unacceptable, he explains he has an illness. Many women would set down limits, not simply say, you can do what you want because you have an illness.

I've told her, look anxiety Jenny enjoys making me unhappy, when she spent 5 hours delaying going someplace planned for my birthday and father's day, she was happy to aggravate me. And don't tell me that she didn't want that, you intend what you do, if I buy $2,000 golf clubs when you need to pay bills, I don't get to say golf is not that important. Don't give me this bullcrap, you intend what you do, you do what you intend.

I can tell you no one likes when she changes plans, says she will do something and doesn't do it.

Your a peach! Comparing BiPolar or any Mental Condition to a man's ability to drink or not drink, look at porn, cheat, etc. is so utterly ridiculous, I can't believe I just typed it.

I've been doing this for 33 years and I'm not sure i've ever heard someone refer to their spouse or partner "should" being able to control their mental illness on that level. Mental Illness is in the brain, I'm not going to bore you with the exact science, but it's not something one can just control because someone things they can. That type of thinking belongs with the cavemen. Your wife can no more decide NOT to be anxious or stressed or depressed or any other mental issue than she can decide to tell you your being an unsupportive jerk. Oh and by the way referring to her as "normal" Jenny and "anxiety" Jenny is so offensive and emotional abusive that I'm surprised she's not had a breakdown yet.

Who cares whether people likes when she changes plans, who cares? Your main objective should be supporting her, getting her the Therapy and Psychiatric care that she needs and not really giving a darn about everyone else....she is your wife after all. If you have a sudden Stroke and end up in a wheelchair and need someone to feed, bathe and wipe your butt, do you expect her to do that, or will your buddies be lining up for the job?

She's underwent severe change and that can be a major catalyst for triggering BiPolar, Anxiety and Depression that may not have seemed to be bad for the first half of your life together, because she was comfortable in her surroundings, she knew people, she knew her town, she knew her LIFE! Just up and moving can have a drastic effect. So, instead of insulting her with your "normal" this and "anxiety" that, how bout you think about what she needs, how scared she is, how hard this is for her, and how important it is that you get her the proper Mental Health help ASAP.

Jesus christ I cannot believe some of the crap that I read that you said, and I did this for a damn living!!!

"Alcohol addiction, also known as alcoholism, is marked by a craving for alcohol and the inability to stop drinking despite any negative impacts. An AUD occurs when the chemical changes from long-term alcohol use cause the brain to adapt its normal functions. This creates a dependency on the substance. Signs of an alcohol addiction include."

So yes, ALCOHOLISM IS AN ADDICTION, THE PERSON CAN'T CHANGE, and COMPARING ONE ADDICTION OR DYSFUNCTION TO ANOTHER IS PERFECTLY APPROPRIATE.

So under your theory, the wife whose husband loses his job, and comes home drunk at 3:00 3-4 times a week without calling must be excused because he has an addiction he can control. Hopefully you're telling the women in the separate and divorce support group exactly that because a whole lot of their husbands have been saying it's not my fault. So tell these husbands instead of insulting them with the "normal" this and "anxiety" that, how bout you think about what he needs, how scared he is and sympathize with him.

And no, I' have a lot of patience and people think I am a good husband. Never strayed, raised step kids as my own, when she had breast cancer went to any appt needed, had her mother living with us for 3 years without probably raising my voice once. And putting aside me, how about what she's doing to herself, she can have a wonderful life, I don't mind working though I'm of retirement age, we'll have a nice house, grandchildren, she can join a country club, go on any F-ing vacation with her friend where she wants and I'll pay for it, get a manicure and facial every week, and enjoy herself.

Before Anxiety Jenny took over, my wife went on two European tours with friends and love the trips along with cruises and the like. She had her own independent life. Its Anxiety Jenny that wants to, and has, f-up my life and hers telling her why don't you stay in bed and go over all the mistakes you made, don't exercise or walk, pass on any new clothes and just stay miserable, get more and more, and more stress and anxiety then you'll get sick. Sure, Anxiety Jenny is doing a great job running her life.

And when both my parents died within a year and we had to restrict any visits, Anxiety Jenny was happy because she caused more problems and stress. Her sister can't stand when she get that anxious voice and basically eliminates any plans people had.

You wrote, "how bout you think about what she needs." The psychologists, counselors, family member agree on what she needs, fresh air, going out, reframing bad thoughts, not blaming herself., putting back functioning Jenny, and getting Anxiety Jenny out of it.

You suggest I don't have patience. Imagine someone complaining that there are two many newspapers and books in the room, you suggest cleaning the room out on Thursday, hiring someone, starting a little, but nothing gets done, she just complains about the books over and over and over and over and over and over, at some point, don't you say clean out the f-ing books or stop complaining about it.

And if this is all physiological, why doesn't she just take her medicine every say exactly as prescribed instead of making me the hall monitor., and getting cross-examined by her family and friends about whether she is actually taking her medicine.

Alcohol addiction, also known as alcoholism, is marked by a craving for alcohol and the inability to stop drinking despite any negative impacts. An AUD occurs when the chemical changes from long-term alcohol use cause the brain to adapt its normal functions. This creates a dependency on the substance. Signs of an alcohol addiction include."

So yes, ALCOHOLISM IS AN ADDICTION, THE PERSON CAN'T CHANGE, and COMPARING ONE ADDICTION OR DYSFUNCTION TO ANOTHER IS PERFECTLY APPROPRIATE.

So under your theory, the wife whose husband loses his job, and comes home drunk at 3:00 3-4 times a week without calling must be excused because he has an addiction he can control. Hopefully you're telling the women in the separate and divorce support group exactly that because a whole lot of their husbands have been saying it's not my fault. So tell these husbands instead of insulting them with the "normal" this and "anxiety" that, how bout you think about what he needs, how scared he is and sympathize with him.

And no, I' have a lot of patience and people think I am a good husband. Never strayed, raised step kids as my own, when she had breast cancer went to any appt needed, had her mother living with us for 3 years without probably raising my voice once. And putting aside me, how about what she's doing to herself, she can have a wonderful life, I don't mind working though I'm of retirement age, we'll have a nice house, grandchildren, she can join a country club, go on any F-ing vacation with her friend where she wants and I'll pay for it, get a manicure and facial every week, and enjoy herself.

Before Anxiety Jenny took over, my wife went on two European tours with friends and love the trips along with cruises and the like. She had her own independent life. Its Anxiety Jenny that wants to, and has, f-up my life and hers telling her why don't you stay in bed and go over all the mistakes you made, don't exercise or walk, pass on any new clothes and just stay miserable, get more and more, and more stress and anxiety then you'll get sick. Sure, Anxiety Jenny is doing a great job running her life.

And when both my parents died within a year and we had to restrict any visits, Anxiety Jenny was happy because she caused more problems and stress. Her sister can't stand when she get that anxious voice and basically eliminates any plans people had.

You wrote, "how bout you think about what she needs." The psychologists, counselors, family member agree on what she needs, fresh air, going out, reframing bad thoughts, not blaming herself., putting back functioning Jenny, and getting Anxiety Jenny out of it.

You suggest I don't have patience. Imagine someone complaining that there are two many newspapers and books in the room, you suggest cleaning the room out on Thursday, hiring someone, starting a little, but nothing gets done, she just complains about the books over and over and over and over and over and over, at some point, don't you say clean out the f-ing books or stop complaining about it.

And if this is all physiological, why doesn't she just take her medicine every say exactly as prescribed instead of making me the hall monitor., and getting cross-examined by her family and friends about whether she is actually taking her medicine.

Hi Bobby, I don't have any expert insight to offer you. BUT! I wanted to support your position because no one else is doing so. I pretty much agree with you - you can't deal with irrational negativity. If this person is dragging your life down and is completely unwilling to do anything about it... Then that is a problem.

Women on this site pile on if a man does not seem to be living up to his obligations.

You wrote:

"the wife whose husband loses his job, and comes home drunk at 3:00 3-4 times a week"

Yeah you better believe you would hear tons of strongly-worded comments about such a person here!

I think you are totally in the right to be concerned about your situation. I think you should talk to your wife and communicate this the best you can. Make it known that this is a real problem for you, and a real problem for your relationship. See if she is willing to put effort in to improve the situation.

I hope this works out for you and you are able to improve your marriage.

cheers,
-Stepping.

Since you men have so much trouble understanding the dynamics of a women's Mental Illness, in all your patience and perfectness, then yes by all means do something about it.

Do them a favor and leave them and go live your lovely perfect lives, so they can get the proper help and support they need. Then you can go feel sorry for yourself that life is just so awfully hard on you that you had to deal with someone who had an illness they have to deal with and it's derailed your lifes plans. God forbid you get sick at some point and need someone to take care of and support you, Karma has a way of coming back and kicking you in the ass.

And BTW I'm not just a woman with BiPolar Disorder of 33 years, I'm a mother of a son with ADD and Depression, and I'm also a PH.D Clinical Psychologist who treated people with these Diseases, although I never segregated between female and male....so yeah I know a little bit about Mental Illness.

Cheers!

You keep accusing your wife of acting like this to bother you. She probably has less control over her mental condition than you do. If you don't let go of that, my advice is to end your marriage. You are just going to make her worse with that attitude.

The book that helped my husband and I most was given to us by a marriage counsellor. It's called "Loving someone with bipolar disorder" by Julie A Fast and John D Preston. When my husband read it, he realized he also thought I was behaving badly to hurt him. This book explains why that is irrelevant. If your wife was on her own, or with someone else, she would be the same. In other words, this is NOT ALL ABOUT YOU! In fact, anyone who thinks their spouse's mental illness is all about them, or anything else, likely has a personality disorder. That is something you can work on, with the help of a therapist.

The other thing that book did for me, is when my husband realized my mental illness was not about him, he didn't even finish reading the book. But I did! And I followed all the advice in the book. It totally turned me around. I got past menopause, no more hormones raging. and I was able to get off my psych meds, with the help of the strategies in the book.

I only realized a few weeks ago, that my husband has terrible PTSD. He also had DID. I tip toed around him for years. A few years ago, every time he switched personalities, I pointed it out. At that point, I was packing my bags to leave. It totally shocked him when I fingered him. His personalities started disappearing. It was such a relief not walking on egg shells, not knowing if he would have a violent personality, or a kind one from day to day. Sometimes they lasted months.

So, in fact. Although he did not cause my bipolar disorder, which I had from my teens, although undiagnosed till I was about 40, he did make me much worse, because I was living in constant fear. What you are saying about the way you treat your wife, it sounds like you are an abuser, too. Read the book I recommended, but learn about what abuse is about. It doesn't have to be hitting to make it abuse. It is about power and control. I hope you try and change, and help you wife. She really can't help what she is doing.

Ok. This is why I try to discourage posts by people who are spouses, friends or relatives of people with bipolar from posting here.

If it goes on for a while it usually ends up with the poster getting upset or it upsetting the board.

There are too few of us left on this board to lose anymore members.

Many years ago I agreed with DS over maintaining the line that this boards is for people with bipolar, by people who are bipolar.

The other board is at
https://www.dailystrength.org/group/family-friends-of-bipolar

I'm closing this now, I won't be sending any reports - if other posts appear I may well delete them.