inside my own healing journey, the role of therapy, both pro and peer, is as unclear as the problems which propel me to go.

my husband, of course, wants an itemized, contractual blueprint that can be understood at a safe, highly controlled social distance. perhaps i can put that in the past tense. he remains too perfect to go for himself and none of the shrinks he has gone to are willing to fix me en absentia. but at least he has learned how to let me trust my therapy network.

did you remember to put your tools away after your last fix-wifey attempts?

It took me 5 therapists to find the one that I like.

Look at their specialties first. Sounds like your wife would want someone who is trained in anxiety and depression. If there are any other traumas that you suspect or know of, then a therapist trained in PTSD would be in order.

What I did next, was call each one that sounded promising, and speak to them by phone. It's considered a Phone Consultation I guess, but they didn't charge me anything for it. This is where I interview THEM. I asked mine if they had experience treating anxiety, panic attacks, etc. I asked for examples. I asked what type of therapy do they do (there are all kinds, such as CBT, biofeedback, even hypnosis).

If I liked what I heard, I set up the in-person first visit.

But even after that.... like I said, I went through 4 other therapists.... for me, I have to "get along" with the therapist. That we "click" in some way so that I feel comfortable telling her anything and everything. This is what took me 5 therapists to find the one that I felt most comfortable talking to and opening up to.

Every therapist is different. If you don't like one, move on to another one.

Remember, there is no contract.... if you don't like them, then tell them goodbye, and move on to the next one.

I wish you the best in finding her a therapist that will help her.

Gentlemen are raised to 'fix it'.

Problems within the brain thinking process does not fit into a box with check marks.

It is multiple essay with sidebars, options, and when you reach a check mark point, you add that tool to your toolkit.

Example: House purchase fell through. Two things happened at the same time: Severe anxiety and depression.

House - anxiety / depression
Purchase - anxiety / depression
fell - anxiety / depression
through - anxiety / depression

For me, I had to learn how to process the anxiety both physical and mental sensations for each word listed above.

For me, I had to learn how to move up the depression and move down the anxiety naturally.

Literally, drew a diagram of a see-saw with what works to raise lower see-saw side and what works to lower see-saw side to even balance.

Hubs was not understanding the way I responded to his efforts to contain the problem within his experience.

He finally understood when I showed him exactly how I felt about the words he used. He doesn't use those words anymore by his own choice. I asked him to consider how he felt about those words when someone said them to him.

Forensic auditing of feelings, emotions, sensations, and learning how to be gentle while healing is not as simple as a sheet of figures and adding and subtracting numbers.

Here's to you asking questions and working your way to a different level of understanding.

Seriously when I’ve gone to therapy, I found half the stuff that came out of it was never really my initial goal. Sometimes my objectives changed or became clearer the further I delved into the process. Not everything is black and white or a straight line.

Unless your wife specifically talks about what is bothering her, no therapist will help . But you did mention the therapist said the “ perfectionist” word. That in itself is a major red flag, whether you choose to believe it is up to you. I’m still of the opinion that there was more going on with her before the house sale fell through. It wouldn’t be a far stretch to surmise you did not see the signs, but I’d bet my last dollar they were there. One does not suddenly fall apart like she has. I would also surmise that the failed house deal was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Most of us here know how the “anxiety/depression beast” operates from first hand experience. You, on the other hand, don’t have personal knowledge or experience. What you see with your wife on the outside is nothing compared to what is going on on the inside. I say this with respect to you, but also with insight and personal experience with anxiety/depression. What is that old saying about walking a mile in someone else’s shoes? Until you personally experience the same thing that is going on inside your wife, you really don’t have a clue how bad it is or can get. I respect your attempts to help your wife, but you are dealing with more than you can realize at this point. It would be beneficial to educate yourself on anxiety and depression to get a better idea of how your wife is feeling and what you might be able to do to help her better. I know you want her well, but this is something she has to do and want for herself or it won’t happen. The ball is in her court and it will stay there as long as she chooses to stay where she is. At this point, you literally have no control over the situation. It is truly sad and I feel for both of you. God bless.

The thing is that a therapist has to get at the actual “problem” in order to develop a specific treatment plan. That takes some unpacking. I don’t think your wife’s issue is solely her being a perfectionist. That’s not an actual diagnosis. I think if you want to know how the process works, ask your wife’s therapist. I mean I normally feel this is really between your wife and her therapist but based in some of your other posts it sounds like you have had contact with the therapist so it seems you are involved in some discussions already. I think you might want to ask her therapist then, ok, how does this typically work?

This is why I think you may benefit from therapy, to help you deal with underlying resentment and what appears like some control issues when it comes to your wife’s mental health. It’s very hard to be in a partnership when one partner is dealing with what is basically an illness. It affects both people. And both people in a way have to heal. Just my opinion of course.

Thanks to all for comments, and let me respond to Mtd,

1. Things far apart "One does not suddenly fall apart like she has. I would also surmise that the failed house deal was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Most of us here know how the “anxiety/depression beast” operates from first hand experience. You, on the other hand, don’t have personal knowledge or experience. What you see with your wife on the outside is nothing compared to what is going on on the inside. "

One son made a similar comment but there was little evidence of this. She talked before of how happy she was and how she loved retirement.

2. Structure I have learned a lot about her in the last year. One thing was how she treasures structure and two close friends are teachers. She loved a tour vacation with specific times and visits. We went to the same hotel in the same country each year. When we moved, that structure and familarity was torn apart. It's tough for me to understand because if you told me we could live in different places, experience different things, perhaps travel, even live in a foreign country for a few weeks, that would sound great.

3. Elephant in the room Many have said let her solve her problems. However entertaining her, addressing issues and problems, dominates my life, so it cannot be ignored.

4. Perfectionism My wife is a loving, caring person who was flexible and caring with the children and me. She handled things at her job, never getting a bad review in 3 decades at a tough job, never straying, never arrested, just handling things. And then everything came tumbling down and she blamed herself tremendously.

She handled 50 vacations, never missing a hotel reservation or plane, but now she places blame on herself. She did have a good session with a new therapist.

Talk is one thing, but what goes on in her mind is altogether a different thing. Stand back an look at what you said, Structure, she treasures it. Another red flag. Ties right in there with perfectionism. A completely structured and perfect life. Never missing anything. Always saying the right thing to keep those around her happy. This woman is either a saint or she found the key to perfection that no one else has found. I find this very suspect. No one gets everything perfect, no one. Not even your wife. Is it that important to you that she be so perfect in your eyes? Has it ever occurred to you that the burden of being perfect for everyone around her is what caused her to fall? That is one hell of a burden for anyone to carry.

I absolutely appreciate your candor. If I had a small criticism of this industry, it's the tendency to dance around things, and I don't mind criticism either.

MTD wrote, "Is it that important to you that she be so perfect in your eyes? Has it ever occurred to you that the burden of being perfect for everyone around her is what caused her to fall? Really don't think that's what happened. First, we would have had a blowup before. Now periodically, she would get mildly upset and we addressed it. For example, her mother who was disabled moved into our home, for 3 years. My wife sometimes felt stressed and we went on frequent vacations. Her stress level then, as displayed to me, was about a 2, as compared to a 10 now.

She was not a tough perfectionist helicopter type wife, indeed our children are successful because she's been a loving, positive and patient person, certainly not perfectionist with respect to them, if things went wrong we were patient and we are fortunate they are doing very well now.

And she was able to handle her own expectations until recently. For example, she gained about 50 pounds in the last 2-3 years (to around 2020. it's a little weird to see your wife's med records). I'm proud that I make few comments about that and she had a very healthy self-image. She walked regularly was happy with how she looked, we had a nice love life and things were well. She continually talked about how happy she was in retirement.

It's only recently that when she became depressed, lost a good 40 lbs, that she now feels funny and self-conscious, not wanting her picture taken.

The perfectionism, a surprise to basically all the family, only became an issue recently. She keeps saying she messed our life up, I messed our life up, it's all my fault, and when I try to get her focused on what we should do now, she just rivets back to serious self-blame. There is a lack of structure, but in prior years, she would adjust expectations to where we were, she wasn't an intense make money type, and freely adjusted to what I earned and we were happy. Again, she is angry at herself for ruining that.

We can certainly be straight forward with each other, no problem here. It is better than dancing around things. Does your wife confide in you or talk to you like she used to? Has that changed at all? You mentioned the vacations at the same hotel and structured itinerary, which points to a possible need for order and safety, stability. No variation, nothing new. Along with that, she is angry at herself for reasons that would not be such an issue for other folks. Disappointment, yes, but not to the extent she has succumbed to. That makes me think she has unrealistic expectations of herself. What she is doing to herself right now is much worse than a failed home purchase, in that her self blame is interfering in the quality of her life and the marriage. But she can’t see that right now. It still smacks of perfectionism to me. Or at least unrealistic expectations from herself. The human mind is a complicated thing. Sometimes the underlying issues are not readily identifiable, even to the sufferer. In my own efforts to recover from anxiety disorder, I had to develop the courage to take a long look at myself and admit my perceptions and belief system was causing my anxiety. Quite frankly, I was sick and tired of being sick and tired of the anxiety controlling me. Educating myself about anxiety went a long way in understanding myself, enabling me to take positive steps forward.

It is definitely helpful to walk into a therapist office knowing what you need to fix and what assistance you need to accomplish those things.
However, most people have no concept of coping strategies BEFORE seeing a therapist. A therapist is there to guide you through whatever your personal issues are, and help you develop strategies that work for you.
In my experience most are simply there for the paycheck and don't particularly care if you make progress or not.
I have been fortunate that I found a great therapist for both myself and one for my grandson. They insist that we make progress with our issues.
In the past year I have been managing to work through my grief over losing my son, developed some wonderful strategies to assist with my anxiety and agoraphobia. I have returned to college online full-time (straight A student) and got a part-time job. While raising a grandson with behavioral issues and home-school him.

Congratulation on your progress and accomplishments Debbip.

Bobby,

Just some general thoughts, as I have read all of your posts up until now...

Did she have a complete physical, including a brain MRI? There is a small possibility that she had a small stroke or there is a brain aneurysm. I know it sounds far fetched. But, these things do happen, and that would cause someone's behavior to suddenly change, cause anxiety and depression, etc.

I am only suggesting this, because you make a lot of comments about how she "used to be", and how she used to handle things. We all do change, and it's possible that she has developed anxiety and depression now, at this age in her life. And yes, I completely understand comparing someone to how they "used to be". I think that same way with people I know, too, but we have to accept how they are now, and not expect them to possibly ever go back to exactly how they once were.

I was just wondering if she has had a very thorough medical work-up. Because physical issues generally are easier to fix than mental issues.

Good luck. Thank you for caring so much about her.

Oh, it's definitely something we considered. When this started, her sister started saying my wife had a stroke. I scheduled a comprehensive physical and sis gave me multiple instructions to ask about stroke. However, the MD diagnosed severe anxiety.

Thereafter she had a brain MRI. No stroke was seen, but there was some materials associated with brain matter changes, but ultimately found to be insignificant by two neurologists. She has had at least 2 MRI's and note the changes correlate with life events. A close friend who is a psychiatrist discounts the stroke idea and see a psychiatric issue, though she is not treating my wife.

A separate theory was Alzheimer's also associated with changed behavior.
However the Alz material I've seen seems to require memory loss, and my wife still has a strong memory, and can when people are present, basically restore to her old self. Following discharge from her recent program, her doctor suggested a neuro/psychiatric exam. The term mini-stroke has been bandied about but we're not clear what they means.

I welcome any suggestions but the working diagnosis is severe depression and obsessive compulsive disorder. As you note, (and I always appreciate your insight), neither was an issue for the prior 66 years.

You just supplied another piece to the puzzle. Your wife can “basically restore her old self” when others are present. So she has assumed a role of behavior in front of others, but not when alone with you. She is in a sense pretending to be something she is not for the sake of appearing “normal” in front of others. Another red flag. Unhappy, anxious people can be amazing actors. Is it a far fetched idea that she has been “pretending” for a lot longer? I don’t think so Bobby. My theory is that she has carried her burden for so long that it broke her, she can no longer pull off the happy and contented, has it all together wife image. Not that she is doing this intentionally, but this is the way she unknowingly learned how to cope and keep everybody happy at the expense of her own peace of mind. I also theorize she has unrealistic expectations of herself that she also developed, again, unknowingly. Many people develop coping strategies to cover their anxiety and low confidence, and as I said, they learn how to be great actors, to cover themselves from the world at large. I know this to be true, having been there myself. That’s why I made the comment about folks with anxiety knowing what really goes on inside a person with anxiety, they can draw on their own experience. They have insight, those who have never experienced anxiety can’t begin to understand because they haven’t lived it.