Or maybe it's a little more subtle than that...

The many negative consequences, combined with loss of control...so impossible to stop negative consequences by drinking in a more controlled way.

In my experience that's why many choose to quit rather than "pull themselves together" and become social drinkers.

P

You could have asked a different question... Do you not drink because of how it makes you feel about yourself or because of how your drinking has affected your relationships with others?

You would have gotten a variety of answers and could have come up with a conclusion that seems as accurate as the one you came to without being any closer to the truth. Asking an either/or question provides a bias to the answers and oversimplifies an important issue.

For me I quit because of everything I have allowed it to take from me. nothing but negative impact one after the other. I only have 4 days behind but it's becoming clearer ever day just how harmful it is when you have no control but I'm sure most of us know that

EJG,

Not sure I understand the relationship between your question and mine. I wanted to find out how many people (like me) consider alcohol to be a harmful (mentally, physically and socially) substance and therefore decided to quit ingesting it versus those who quit primarily because they could not drink it "responsibly" (with control). Does that not seem like a legitimate question to you?

For me it is both. It was having negative effects and I could not control it. I felt I would die if never quit. And if I never died id live in a hell of wine that was drowning me. good topic Buck:)

Having no control IS the negative consequence. It's what leads to all the other negative consequences, so I'm not seeing your question as an either/or thing. Are you wondering if there's anyone here who believes that a drink or two every now and then is bad for you, so they decided to give it up? Not sure why they would come to an alcoholism board, but you never know.

I know there are some heavy drinkers who can cut back to socially acceptable levels. Decades of testing and experiments have proven that I am not one of them, but it sounds like you think you might be. Am I getting this right? You could drink less if you wanted to, but you feel that any amount of alcohol is harmful?

Actually Laura, I did not mean to imply that it was an either/or answer I am looking for. What I am looking for is the main driver for people when they decide to quit. Is it primarily the belief that you cannot control your drinking yet you feel alcohol is harmless below certain levels of ingestion, or do you feel alcohol in any amount is harmful and therefore you should not drink it.

I didn't always drink to excess every time I drank alcohol. While I did drink some alcohol nearly every day, I only "shot the moon" once a week or so. So I guess to answer your question, yes I do believe I could have limited my drinking to a consistently "reasonable" level every time I drank, but I just didn't want to. That may sound like denial to some, but I just never saw my drinking as that big of a problem until I finally got a good look at myself and I took clear notice of who and what I had become.

So I decided to immerse myself in gaining a better understanding of what alcohol was and why it had become such an integrated part of my lifestyle for over 45 years. What I learned was that alcohol is actually a substance that the body treats like a poison and tries to neutralize immediately upon ingestion. There is no nutritional value in alcohol and the body does not use alcohol for anything useful. We drink it for one reason, and that is to get drunk to some level. We disguise it with mixers and fruit juice (wine) and hops (beer) to make it more palatable, but the bottom line remains the same; we all drink alcoholic beverages to get drunk to some level. That is why I drank alcohol, no other reason. And I liked the feeling of being drunk so much that I integrated into my lifestyle for over 45 years.

So for me, control over how much I drink is not the big issue. For me, the best reason to stop drinking alcohol is because it is harming me and the pleasure of feeling drunk is not worth the harm that alcohol is doing to my body, mind and social well being.

Buck, I wish you the best no matter what your reason is for quitting. However I will point out again that, as unbelievable as it may sound, many people actually do NOT like the feeling of being drunk, and will stop after a drink or two for exactly that reason. (I know, right? Shocked the hell out of me, too!) It's a bit like the way I drink a soda. I like it once in awhile, but I rarely have more than one, and usually leave a second one half finished. I don't think there's any harm in having a drink once in awhile if that's what it's like for you. Supposedly, wine might actually be good for you. (A glass, not a bottle.) On the other hand, if it occurs to that you should stop after a few, but you keep drinking anyway (because you "want" to), that sounds suspiciously like alcohol gaining control over your behavior. Just food for thought.

This is why I like the big book of AA.

It has stories that identify with.

When I controlled my drinking, I didn't enjoy it.
When I enjoyed my drinking, I couldn't control it.

First things first.

Budda, I need to tell you up front that I don't like your insinuation that I might be a "fraud". I state my case on what I (and others) believe is a logically and solidly based premise. You see me as a threat to your belief that drinking must be based on something that "drove you to drink in the first place". Look as deep as you want Budda, but for me it is as simple as I said it was. I liked the feeling of being drunk. There were no "underlying reasons" for me. Maybe you need a deeper reason Budda. I don't and that does not make me a fraud or mean I am in denial. We just see things differently and for some reason that threatens you. Get over it.

Laura, thanks for your thoughtful and reasonable response. I continue to believe that everyone drinks alcohol to feel the effect that alcohol has on our brains (drunkenness for lack of a better term). You are right in saying that some people don't like the feeling of getting too drunk. Actually, I would say that most people and even the most severely addicted alcohol addict has a point at which they are "too drunk" to enjoy it. In some cases that point results in feeling physically ill and the body rejecting the alcohol through vomiting. Of course nobody enjoys getting to that point.

Your point regarding the legitimacy of my not wanting to stop drinking after a couple because "I just didn't want to" is one I have considered myself many times. Actually, there were many (most) times when I did stop after a couple of drinks and therefore I believe I always had the control when I wanted it. There were also times when I continued to drink until I was completely smashed, even though I knew the consequences would be a bad hangover. I was in control then too.

So let me ask you this; were there times when you stopped after a couple drinks or did you always drink until you got smashed? Can you call yourself an out-of-control alcoholic if you were actually able to control your drinking at times? For me it was just that there were times when I felt like having a couple, and times when I felt like getting smashed. Again, I was in control in both circumstances.

"Loss of Control" doesn't mean drink to the end, every time in a whirlwind Buck. It's a very well documented symptom of Alcoholism, Alcohol abuse, alcohol problems etc, but symptoms may vary in reality :)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10843306

For me, it was periodic...some days were worse than others. Over time it got steadily worse but when I look back honestly it was an issue for longer.

You seem to be really hung up on loss of control, is there a reason? By definition, most people with an alcohol problem are drinking more than they want to, more often than they want to - no? What is addiction if not an epidemic of lost control? :)

P

Oh and just a quick reminder of your first post:
***********
"This morning I decided to try and address my addiction to alcohol. I started drinking in college and have been a very active (almost daily) drinker for nearly 45 years. I did manage to quit for just more than a year about 10 years ago (a couple ofAA meetingsand will-power) but fell back into it. Lately my drinking has gotten me to the point where I can't remember things I say or do once I am hammered. My wife has started attending Al Anon meetings and has even stopped her (controlled) drinking."
**********

So think about it my friend: why did you really quit...without the post-rationalisation? Why did your wife go to Al Anon? What was the difference between her "controlled" drinking, and yours...to make you write that?

P

My pathetic excuse for an uncle, that I don't consider family anymore, fed it to me when I was 8 years old, forcing me to drink it until I was sick. By the time I was 12 I was an alcoholic. I admitted it for years and also admitted that it was my strongest weakness. I had blocked out most of the childhood trauma and when I started to remember I chased the flood of horrid memories away with as much straight vodka as I could manage to drink in a night. I didn't wanna deal with being beaten and gang raped all the time throughout my childhood so I drank it away.

Thank my mom kidnapped my kids and sent them away to get them out of the situation and it forced me to look at myself. I fought for two a year to sober up and another year to get my kidlets back.

Why did I quit drinking?? Because my family means more to me than a stupid bottle of liquor! Why did I fall off my wagon 9 months ago? Because I'm dumb and gave into a weakness. I'm back on my wagon and, with God and my mom and children and DS, I will never fall off again!!!!! I'll pull my hair out before I touch that crap!

I quit because It was killing me and I wanted to stay alive.I could not quit until the desire to never drink again became stronger than what my pickled mind was telling me to ensure I continued. I needed God's help and good direction from certain other people to follow through.

In response to postings 41 and 42:

Paul, I am not "hung-up" on loss of control. I just want to better understand what it is that people are primarily trying to address when quitting. It seems as though some folks have the belief that alcohol is not that harmful and their problem it is just that they cannot control how often and how much they drink. And there are others (like me) that believe alcohol is a harmful substance in any amount and therefore I should not drink it. I managed to quit and stay sober for over 5 months because I am now convinced that all alcohol is bad for my body, mind and social well being. Can you not see there is a difference there that might be important for someone to consider when trying to figure out why and how they should deal with alcohol addiction?

Paul, what exactly in my first posting do you find to be inconsistent with my recent postings? I will admit that I have learned a lot more about alcohol and therefore my perspective is somewhat different now. So what?

And finally, since you asked, my wife also quit drinking alcohol (before me) and says she quit because she did not want to experience the negative effects of alcohol any more. I was certainly a bigger abuser of alcohol than her, but I maintain we both drank for the fundamentally the same reason; we liked how alcohol made us feel while we were drinking. She started to attend Al-Anon because I refused to quit drinking initially ( I did not think I had a real problem) and she still attends because she says she enjoys the group discussions and support she has found there. She also likes helping others and I think our "success story" might inspire some folks.

Sure seems like a lot of people on this discussion board have a need to psycho-analyze the Buck. Nothing special here. There are actually quite a few other people who feel pretty much the same way as me about alcohol addiction.