I'm really early in soberiety, but I think saying and doing certain things only to look back on them and learn from it is the only way of doing it.

You've got a sense of humor, and I have recently seen it come back to light a bit. some people will get it and some won't,.

keep a movin'

You say "I don't feel like myself anymore". Could it be that you are in the process of discovering, through the steps & therapy who you really are?

That was an uncomfortable yet necessary stage in recovery for me too. Eventually I learned how to express my opinions and assert myself in a healthier way than ever before. Remember Tara, we are not doormats. It took awhile for me to grasp "To Thine Own Self Be True".

Good goin' on 8 months!! You're a far cry from who you were when you got on DS though you may not believe it.

I went from being totally aggressive to being totally passive. I felt so uncomfortable in my own skin (like going against the grain on wood) or (rubbing velvet the wrong way) I have been sober 4 years and I am working on being assertive and setting boundaries. I have been aggressive all my life and it is gonna take longer than 4 years to get where I would like to be and like it is said (progress not perfection)

Tara What you're going through is perfectly normal. We are learning how to live and think in a different way. Feeling uncomfortable is all part of the growing process. Some of our old ways of thinking are not just going to go away all that easily. We have been trapped in our old ways for far to many years to expect for them to just disappear. What we do notice is that we find ourselves thinking about what we're going to say before we say it. Alcoholics are always great about coming back with a smart ass answer without giving any thought to whats being said. Congratulations on recognizing the fact that you care enough about what you are saying and how you are saying it. Thats growth Though it maybe uncomfortable and maybe a little painful thats how we know we are changing from within. Keep doing what you're doing. You'll be just fine. Greg

So does the balance just come eventually?

Before I got sober and before I came on DS, the years before my drinking got really out of control, I just thought I had a strong personality, not bad. I felt passionate about life. I was intense and it felt good. I didn't always go around hurting people. I had a decent sense of humor. I felt like I could express myself pretty freely. I want to be THAT person again but without the need to drink all the time.

I don't think I like being passive. Sometimes it is okay. Like I said, I am not as angry as I was before so more stuff rolls off my back and I can let it go, but there are times I FEEL like a doormat. I try to convince myself I am being the bigger person, but I don't know.

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I appreciate it.

xo

Well I can relate. I'm 7 months sober today. I'm loving sobriety, love AA, and am really happy. That said, I'm not sure how to function at times. So I just go with it. I don't over analyze mostly, and when I find myself doing that (negative shit in my head) I call someone. And usually they show me the way out.
Good luck.

I don't know enough about you to hazard a guess but I recognise the discomfiture you are going through. It is pretty normal to feel like that, as others have said, because that is what change - real change - demands. It is a shift from selfishness to selflessness.

I felt pretty dire in general on my journey through the Steps, although I had lots of spiritual moments of truth.

My spiritual awakening came part way through my Step 9 and it was then I felt at one with the world and it kept on growing. I was able to get through the bad stuff that life throws at you too and begin to learn something from the bad stuff, not develop a resentment about it happening.

How is your relationship with your Higher Power? If you are developing a relationship with the God of your understanding, the discomfort and "self" side of things should gradually subside because the more you rely on Him and helping others, the less chance your ego has of running the show.

It is incredibly hard to let go of old ideas and what you used to rely on. For me there was no going back to anything that used to be "me" because that "me" drank.

In the Big Book it says "we were reborn" and as far as I have experienced, that is pretty literal.

You ask So does the balance just come eventually?

I don't believe so, it takes lots of work to get spiritually fit and the Steps provide the necessary tools for the job.

I think it has a lot to do with feeling comfortable in your own skin and with self confidence. And that often comes from knowing that you are doing the best that you can and that you are living an honest life.

Humility is a good thing, but I don't necessarily think that it means we have to slink off into a corner and keep quiet.

They say that alcohol "releases your inhibitions" and normal people like to drink so they can loosen up. But for those of us that can't handle alcohol, we go much further than loosening up. So in sobriety, we have to find ourselves and learn how to be ourselves without using alcohol. And that's something that I seldom did from the age of 15. I think what you are feeling is normal, but don't isolate. Human contact and the ability to deal with other people will probably help you get over this hurdle. It takes practice to learn to deal with other people. So practice, practice, practice.

I don't get "self-less". I understand serving others and God and being unselfISH, but I can't be self LESS.

Maybe that is my prob. I am trying to find a balance between a-hole and doormat. Maybe I have read too much Ayn Rand.

I had a post awhile back about bondage of self... The whole idea throws me for a loop. I am getting better at serving others lately - trying really hard and feeling good about it. I am also codependent tho so giving of myself with being self sacrificing is difficult.

Is there anything in AA lit that talks about this "selflessness"? Like what does is mean? Does it mean I have to sit here and let my ex suck me dry financially while he sits on his ass all day? Cuz I tried that - for 5 years. What is the balance?

Sorry... rambling. Maybe I am just resentful lately. My tolerance is really low. I feel like I am not participating in life and not standing up for my ideals. I feel like I am TOO passive.

I heard a guy share a story the other day... He said his ex wife was mad at him. When he asked why, she said YOU SLEPT WITH MY BROTHER'S WIFE WHILE WE WERE MARRIED. His response that he kept to himself but shared with the group... "Now I know she is just sick." I was appalled.

Another guy who I otherwise respected with 15 yrs sobriety bailed on a commitment to me with very short notice and a very lame excuse. I was pissed, but I kept my mouth shut other than saying I'd deal with it.

People are talking shit left and right and I am watching a friend of mine PICK ON other people. I have distanced myself but kept my mouth shut.

Dang. I am just resentful. Sorry for venting.

Hello Taradactyl,

What I have found is that I have had to develop a new way of dealing with those feelings rather than just repressing them. Trying to control feelings like anger etc. in that way is almost as difficult as trying to stop drinking on your own. I am a very long way from getting it right all of the time - indeed, I dont expect to ever reach that state and I dont aspire for that perfection anymore. A journey of progress is what gives me satisfaction today.

To get to where I can deal with these feelings without tipping the balance in the wrong direction, I had to do a certain amount of work. You may employ a different approach but for me, I had to take a good look at myself and how I relate to the world. Being of a somewhat stubborn nature or maybe it was just that I was too proud to admit failure and look for help, I first of all explored the possibility of counselling. To make a long story short, I discarded thoughts of going to the shrink and ended up instead going to an AA meeting.

Through the 12 Step programme, I learned a sort of formula that allows me to look at my actions and thoughts every day and to make corrections where necessary. In short, I have learned to accept the person I am, providing that I continue to make progress.

Do people and situations make me angry today? Of course they do. Anger is a God given human emotion. However, I try to analyse the situation and to change the way that I react. Sometimes I can do that immediately and other times it may take quite a while. But I try not to react with anger to other people and neither do I carry around a lot of supressed anger. To arrive at this point I had to get a sponsor who understood the Steps and even then, it was not until I started to pass it on to other people that I started to get a decent understanding of how to work this stuff.

Do I feel restrained and let people use me as their doormat? No. If anything I am more likely to stand up for myself BUT only when that is the right thing to do and I have to be very careful about that. Other times, the right approach is to say nothing and walk away and I do that too. Some people may view that as being cowardly but I can assure you that it takes a lot more courage to walk away instead of arguing your case.

I dont know how you have used your time over the last eight months. You see, for many alcoholics it is not enough to just stop drinking. We used alcohol for dealing with emotions and it would still work IF the amount could be controlled as with normal drinkers. However, control over alcohol is gone and will never be regained so that solution is out. Something has to be put in place that will help to deal with life and all its problems. For me, that something is the 12 Step programme.

Dealing with life in this new way is not something that comes naturally to anyone. Over many years you have learned to react in certain ways and your brain reacts automatically in those ways. Now, you suddenly want to do things differently and something has to change in order to achieve that. You can go to meetings and listen to people sharing about self-will and Gods will and plenty of other stuff, but until you take ACTION in order to learn how to apply those suggested principles to your own life you will continue to struggle.

Recovery is not about being restrained or about walking on eggs around other people. Rather, it is about coming to know and to like the person you are; becoming confident with what you are doing; making the most of your talents; living life to the full; drawing on a new source of knowledge. Tara, you can have all of those things and so much more but first of all, ACTION is required on your part.

I don't get being self-less. I am not aspiring to lose my ego either. I figure that identity of self might disappear when I die, until then I will embrace my identity -- who I am -- and try to learn and grow within it.

I did not lose my self confidence when I quit. How I act is a bit different -- I hold myself in check sometimes, mainly because I am more aware of who I am and how I am acting. I stand up for myself; sometimes I am abrasive when I speak up -- that's okay, I can work on that.

I have not turned my will over to God or a higher power, and I don't know what that means. In my belief system I am the one who has to make choices, hopefully good ones, based on my sense of right and wrong.

Not sure if any of this helps at all.... just a few thoughts.

Hello again Taradactyl,

In order to recover from alcoholism many alcoholics need to undergo a personality change. However, it is only a personality change that is sufficient to allow recovery; you dont have to become someone else.

I listened to a guy sharing recently about the advice that he got from an old-timer with 26 years in AA. What he was told was that AA is all about deflating the ego. To each his or her own way of thinking but I sat there rationalising about how anyone could get it so wrong. Having said that, the guy did not have a drink for almost three decades and I could be drunk tonight. To me AA is certainly about deflating the ego and that is a very necessary part of the programme. However, our God given ego is not something to be despised. Instead, once a new set of principles are learned, the ego can be used as God intended. That means recognising that you, like every human being has certain talents and making good use of what you have.

Negative ego, where we run ourselves down as being useless at everything is another form of pride and is just as destructive as the big head syndrome. The trick is to try and find that balance that you have referred to. This is where self-will can lead us astray as we try to run the show, maybe with the best of intentions.

The Steps ask us make a decision to hand over our will (our thinking) and our lives (our actions) to the care of God in Step 3. However, a decision means nothing unless it is followed by action and the action comes in Steps 4 to 12. We are told that in Step 10, the will can be taken back because sanity has now returned and the will can be used as God intended. We also have a new source of knowledge that can be used where we are uncertain about the answers intuitive thoughts.

I used to drive myself crazy going to meetings and trying to understand things like selflessnessand a lot more. Part of the problem was that there were as many opinions as there were people in the room. Then I got a sponsor who did the Steps exactly as they are laid out in the Big Book and it started to become clearer. However, it was not until I could look back on it with a bit of experience that comes with time that I could really start to make some sense of it all. I suppose the best thing I learned is that I know very little but I try to remain willing to learn.

That decision that is made in Step 3 can be put into practice every day by the use of Steps 10, 11 and 12. It means putting your faith in that higher power and following the suggested principles. Human nature being what it is, people will let you down now and again sometimes through no fault of their own. That is why it is so important to develop a trust in some power greater than ourselves.

I agree with PJ54's replies to you here and I will give you a bit of reading reference to hopefully see that "selflessness" is not so confusing a concept:

Tara, if you read p.62 in the Big Book it tells us selfishness can kill us.

Selflessness is really getting to the spiritual heart of the programme. It is the opposite of selfishness and more. I think the St Francis prayer (which most AAs are familiar with from the 12 and 12) describes it very well:

"Lord, make me an instrument of thy peace!
That where there is hatred, I may bring love.
That where there is wrong, I may bring the spirit of forgiveness.
That where there is discord, I may bring harmony.
That where there is error, I may bring truth.
That where there is doubt, I may bring faith.
That where there is despair, I may bring hope.
That where there are shadows, I may bring light.
That where there is sadness, I may bring joy.
Lord, grant that I may seek rather to comfort, than to be comforted.
To understand, than to be understood.
To love, than to be loved.
For it is by self-forgetting that one finds.
It is by forgiving that one is forgiven.
It is by dying that one awakens to Eternal Life."
Saint Francis of Assisi

P68 in the Big Book tells us how we can achieve a measure of selflessness but we can only do that if our real reliance is upon God. It also explains how not to be a doormat and it is not just one extreme to another, there are subtle differences:

We trust infinite God rather than our finite selves. We are in the world to play the role He assigns. Just to the extent that we do as we think He would have us, and humbly rely on Him, does He enable us to match calamity with serenity.

We never apologize to anyone for depending upon our Creator. We can laugh at those who think spirituality the way of weakness. Paradoxically, it is the way of strength.

The verdict of the ages is that faith means courage. All men of faith have courage. They trust their God. We never apologize for God. Instead we let Him demonstrate, through us, what He can do. We ask Him to remove our fear and direct our attention to what He would have us be."

Selfless to me is acting with others' interests in mind. Consideration of others. Enjoying what I have without wanting more or wanting better. Letting others speak of their struggles without me having to give my own tale of woe.

Little acts go a long way. Putting the shopping cart back where it belongs. Parking straight in a spot to leave room for someone else. Might seem insignificant, but they become habit once you start doing them. I know I feel better going that extra mile no matter what it is I am doing.

It was the ISM (I, Self, Me) of this disease that led to my relapse and I work hard at not getting back to that. As others have said, action is key!! Are my actions today leading me toward a drink or away from one? That's what I need to look at for myself.

Continue with your 4th step. More will be revealed. It was amazing to see the pattern that emerged in my own.

And don't think so damn much, woman! ;-)