I disagree.

There are good doctors, and there are bad doctors. And there are ones who are getting their pockets lined by drug companies.

I would NEVER trust a stranger to use my body as their own laboratory experiment. I only take meds once I listen to the doctor, I do my own research on what he/she thinks and if everything aligns.

I say, make no decisions but an informed one. And if you don't know what to do, do nothing. Some bells you can't unring.

You disagree?

Does an informed decision and never trusting strangers extend to those, who for religious reasons, would play doctor and recommend that someone should not take medications such as naltrexone, or antabuse?

Well, I don't know how religion plays into it, but there are Christian Scientists who go that route. If someone feels that way, that's their right. As long as they don't prevent children from getting medically approved treatment.

I know somebody who died rather than getting chemo b/c he thought it would be intervening with God's will... I'm not that way, but everyone's entitled to have their opinion respected.

"everyone's entitled to have their opinion respected. "

Nonsense. People who play doctor should be confronted and exposed.

There were two suicide deaths in the AA I went to in Wyoming, when i fist sobered up. They were told not to take any mind altering substance. They stopped taking prescribed meds.

If you think that you doctor is prescribing the wrong meds get a second opinion from another doctor not from a recovering alcoholic.

The only time I felt encouraged to stop my meds was when I looked at Step 2/3 again after my first full blown manic episode, after 6 1/2 years sober. I felt I had not worked the steps properly since I went so far off the rails mentally. I thought that if I came to believe in a power greater than myself/God I would be restored to sanity and I stopped my meds. Subsequently, I had another manic relapse within 2 years. Fortunately, I stayed sober through the whole 8 year ordeal. I've taken the meds faithful since 1996 and while I can get to be one crispy critter at times the doors haven't been locked behind me since. I've taken to the view of AA that at its best it's a "coffee" clatch where people trade opinions some helpful, some benign, about how to best live one's life without booze. I am sure that my words struck others on that spectrum. Sometimes my interpretation of the words of another is the cause of the perceived harm. Very confusing, this thing called life is with all its grey areas...I guess, for me Rule 62, "Don't take yourself too damn seriously," is good to keep in mind. Although I would add don't take others too seriously including Bill Wilson...

Guess it's a question of balance....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCjDLaQxyq8

And I'm way outta balance lately, but rivers have rapids and placid stretches. I pay an awful price for my refusal not to question, and analyze things. And to argue my point ad nausem at times, but for me to be otherwise, well wouldn't be me...I guess, learning to pay the price to be me without booze was the revelation...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAzm64zXNjk

Don't quite know what prompted this post, but I think there are some different issues circulating.

If someone's dxed with a disorder, yes, meds are most likely necessary. But some people prefer not to be on meds. There's also diet and lifestyle modifications that can also be highly effective, but not pharmaceutical company wants people to get healed by eating a vegan diet and working out.

Are you a doctor?
Or are you just another big pharma conspiracy freak?

When I listened to so many old timers. I thought that these guys needed meds and intensive psychotherapy.

FW- I am neither; just an educated reader. Have you ever done a whiff of research before posting sweeping generalizations?

I'd watch the phrasing of words like "freak." Smacks a little of inflammatory language... And your posting habits are a bit trollish.

ptsdone- that's exactly my point! : ) There's no definitive "test" for psych disorders and even the checklists change with DSM re-evaluations. Some people want meds; some don't. Some are more debilitated... Bi-polar is a tricky one... some get on meds and regulate and then get off b/c they forget that the reason why they feel so good are b/c the ARE on meds, so the get off them and then crash or fly into a mania...

My experience is that I could have EASILY gone on meds for anxiety (and was even questioning more debilitating conditions), but I told a psych I didn't want to. So, I got rid of all the negotiable things in my life that made me feel crazy (alcohol, crap food, a toxic relationship) and added better things to fill the gap. I was 80% better SUPER fast.

Big Book. The Family Afterwards. Page 133 second paragraph, second sentence:

"God has abundantly supplied this world with fine doctors, psychologists and practitioners of various kinds. Do not hesitate to take your health problems to such persons."

NB: fine most likely means "skilled and ethical" in this context.

Tradition 10 - Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the A.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy.

I don't care if there is a conspiracy among doctors and pharmaceutical companies. it doesn't concern AA so it doesn't concern me as far as this forum goes. I do research on the doctor, and the drugs to make sure my doctor is a "fine" doctor.

'nuff said.

Sorry... I meant conspiracy theorist.

Deli here is an example of what you said

"some get on meds and regulate and then get off b/c they forget that the reason why they feel so good are b/c the ARE on meds, so the get off them and then crash or fly into a mania...

In my ex's case there was a definitive test and it was those of us who were close to her.

She use to fly into fits of rage for very minor, insignificant problems. I finally got her to a dr who put her on meds for it and she was fine afterwards. She never even thought she had a problem until myself and her sister talked to her doctor.

Every once in awhile, she'll say she doesn't think she needs to take them anymore but we finally convinced her she needs her meds because without them, she is totally unable to handle the minor stresses of every day living.

One of the things that triggered my drug addiction and alcoholism was horrible feelings of loss and isolation which got progressively worse over time and for all I knew, those feelings were normal and everybody felt that way. I had no way of knowing what was normal and what wasn't because I had nothing to compare myself to. That was when I got into a long conversation about it with my doctor and discovered I needed a certain kind of antidepressent med. I have been fine (normal) ever since!

God Bless!

Deli, I wish DS had "like" buttons. I couldn't agree more with everything you stated.

As an RN, I worked in the psych/chemical dependency field for 10 yrs straight. What you describe is precisely what my experience was. Especially bipolar clients. That's why we had "frequents flyers". Those that would stop their meds because they thought their stability was because of something THEY were doing. Still others missed the high highs of mania.

It is dangerous to try to come between a pdoc&patient. Unfortunately, That was the order of the day when I started in AA in '92. In one individual's suicide, a member was charged with [practicing medicine without a license.

I don't agree to help someone with mental disorders unless they are in at least, monthly contact with their psych doctors.

Bob- what was your wife's dx- borderline? What med did she go on? Sounds like it was a great fit.

Gr8tful- thanks. I wish there was a form/release that people could sign so if they ever chose to go off the meds, they can re-read what they signed not-so-long ago. Something like, "This is what I am like before meds. If I get better, it will be a direct result of the meds, and if I go off them, I will revert back."