What did i tell you before? I said Pray for them, even if you're cussing them out at first...then pray for them because maybe they are sick too!!!

Don't be the victim...be the one who comes out ahead, and the one that can teach others to LOVE

It was suggested to me to pray for them but I should also add...to ask God to help me to meant it next time. I too had to forgive someone and that meant I could no longer see myself as a victim. But see for me being a victim was a good excuse for me to use. It was a reservation that i wanted to hang onto. I had to let go...I actually wrote the person a letter explaining how what they did really F___Ked me up and you know what. They asked for my forgiveness. You may not beable to do this but it is my ES&H. I was able to move on...I pray that you can do.{{{HUGS}}} Ann

Hi WH, I used to think similarly to you. I felt that if I forgave, then I was letting them 'off the hook' - it took years of pain to understand that it was ME that was on the hook, not them.

I prayed for the willingness and courage to just let go of my anger and hatred. I would love to tell you that it all just feel away and I lived happily ever after, but it didn't happen that way.

What DID happen?? I got so mentally ill that I decided that the only way to have peace from my tormented mind was to kill one of the people that I had been hurt by. I travelled to the place where he now lives and decided I would look up his address and then pop round and stick a large knife in his belly. I wanted to see his face, shocked as he died. It was horrible and I was as equally tormented by those thoughts as the ones I was trying to be rid of.

One day, the penny dropped - these feelings, no matter HOW I dressed them up were RESENTMENTS. The Big Book tells me that resentment is the number one offender, it destroys more alcoholics than anything else. Once I knew that, I had to let them go, because I wanted to stay sober.

I didn't think that I would ever be able to forgive because I thought I would never be spiritually fit enough to forgive, but within the letting go process, I suddenly realised that I HAD forgiven. I knew that I no longer wished them harm, no longer wanted them to suffer or even be tormented by thoughts of what they had done.

The way I understand what happened for me is that it is God's grace that allowed it to happen for me.

Also, one of the things that helped me was this definition of forgiveness which was one that I could live with:

Forgiveness is not the misguided act of condoning irresponsible, hurtful behaviour. Nor is it a superficial turning of the other cheek that leaves us feeling victimised and martyred.
Rather, it is the finishing of old business that allows us to experience the present, free of contamination of the past.

? Joan Borysenko Fire in the Soul

Hope this helps!

Lyn

BTW I never killed him but got locked up in a hospital for a while!!

I know, bubz, I know.
Pray for the mudder-fuckers that deserve to be drowning in mud.
Gawddammit why was my father even born? For me to forgive him?
Oh that's frickin nice. And what about my sister that he sold for sex? Am I to ask God to forgive him for that, too? Am I to ask God to forgive him for lying about trying to kill me cuz my voice was getting too loud and then lie about ever trying that? Am I to forgive him for calling me a liar???
Why do I have to forgive him?
Why can't I just ...just understand he's a sick fuck and I can't stand him and I ...I don't know....
I just can't forgive him.
I don't think I can, in my heart-of-hearts, forgive him.
Not for what he did to our whole family and then lies about it and calls us liars.
HE SOLD MY SISTER!

you don't have to forgive.
that's my experience.
i have to see others who wrong me as perhaps spiritually sick, and i MUST see my part in all situations, and take responsibility for that. sometimes my part in it is that i happened to be there when someone else's crap exploded. I must forgive myself, and have faith that my HP has already done so.
I often pray for those i resent.
Good luck

As a Christian, I know I need to forgive.
I will never be in God's favor if I don't.
I can't forgive this and don't see how I ever could.
So, basically, I feel my sobriety is doomed.

Serenity,
Thank you.
That was more than beautiful.

tree:
Your response hits me wrong in so many ways I cannot count.
So many ways.
But you have no clue what you just said to me so that I can easily let ride.

Treetopjoe:

'Resentment is the "number one" offender. It destroys more alcoholics than anything else. from it stem all forms of spiritual disease, for we have been not only mentally and physically ill, we have been spiritually sick. When the spiritual malady is overcome, we straighten out mentally and physically'. BB page64

'it is plain that a life which includes deep resentment leads only to futility and unhappiness. to the precise extent that we permit these, do we squander the hours that might have been worth while. But with the alcoholic whose hope is the maintenance and growth of a spiritual condition, this business is infinitely grave. We found that it is fatal. For when harboring such feelings we shut ourselves off from the sunlight of the Spirit. The insanity of alcohol returns and we drink again. And with us to drink is to die.' BB pg66

'When ready, we say something like this: "My Creator, I am now willing that you should have all of me, good and bad. I pray that you now remove from me every single defect of character which stands in the way of my usefulness to you and my fellows. Grant me strength as I go out from here to do your bidding. Amen." We have then completed Step 7' BB pg76

My experience is that whilst I still held on to resentments I could not forgive anything or anyone. We cannot be in fit spiritual condition if we wilfully hold on to resentments.

You might also like to read Luke 6:27 - 37 if you are a Christian (if you're not then obviously ignore this reference!

forgiving or accepting?..........i think it all involves ego.....no offense.....forgiving passivises ones need to center. there is nothing wrong in that. know your heart and you will know others and accept the differences

Dear, maybe the pressure to "forgive" is to big of a leap right now. Seems like you've got some emotions to deal with first. Just my opinion, maybe something to vent your anger in an artist way (poems, music, art). You have the right to be furious... and it may take time to get it all out. Then you will need to grieve... for your innocences, your childhood, not having the father you deserved. After lots of emotional work, then you might be ready to let go... let go of the anger so it no longer consumes you. To me that is more about what forgiveness means, letting go so you can be free. I've read some of your other posts. I had a supervisor tell me once about a movie called "The General's Daughter." I never seen the movie, it was about rape. However, there was supose to be a scene about the victim saying that "her father not believing her was another form of victimization and almost as bad as the rape itself." I realize what happen to you was something your father did... he never took responsiblity for it, and tried to even say, "It was once" minimizing it... and as you said (and I truely believe....it was more). The other issue that complicates this so much is your mother not protecting you. I'm not sure, did you ever tell her? Did she believe you? For someone to recover from this type of abuse, the research shows that when one not"validated" "believed" "the abuser never takes responsiblity" it makes that persons recovery much more COMPLICATED and difficult. Difficult dear, but not impossible. The other issues (The General's Daughter syndrome) that happened is another form of abuse as well... So dear, I understand, forgiveness will not come just from wanting it.. and God forgive me... I think there is more to be done then praying about it. You might consider therapy...at the least some survivor type books (you can be retraumatized though, that's why working with a therapist is good, so they can monitor you). There is a really good treatment manual that I really like and is showing lots of research promise, Is Seeking Safety. It is a treatment combo, for substance abuse, and PTSD. I'm not saying you have PTSD, but have suffered terrible trauma... even if one hasn't suffered trauma its a great manual... but particularly for those who have. Good luck to you dear. Take your time and be easy with yourself. Blessings.

Catseye's reply I could relate to most. I found it difficult to forgive. So I just downright stopped trying. This is where the serenity prayer helps me daily. There are things that happened in my life, which I wish hadn't, and had a huge impact on my childhood and growth (or lack of). I just came to the realisation that there are things in my life which I couldn't change. I acknowledge them and try my best to leave them in the past and move on, and change the things I can. Allowing yourself to feel and talk about these emotions will help.
CM xxx

Thank you, Cateyes. You know you just may be perfectly correct.
PTDS.
I have never really allowed myself to feel this pain and anger and I am now 46.
I think I am more upset with my Mother, of all people and that is a new one for me.
She knew. She I suppose allowed cuz she knew about him "doing" me from when I was 10 to 13. Both of my other sisters, too. 13 and 15.
I really shouldn't bring this on the room.
I'm sorry. I'm really sorry.
Usually I'm in a happy state. Well...you know...not happy but...well...maybe happy.
I guess it's the holidays and seeing shit on tv of happy holidays shit.
But you are right.
I would LOVE to talk to a counsellor.
Actually,,,,,I would love to give my father a black eye. One good one. Perhaps a good knee jab in his old, sagging balls.

I know the feeling. My biggest problem now though is forgiving myself, that's a toughy. Best wishes and good luck