I think once you've danced with a Gorilla, you know about it Buckstag :)

All else is interesting dinner conversation, but not necessary :)

P

Oh yes Paul, I have certainly danced with that Gorilla. But your response really doesn't address my question. Is the 2 glasses of wine every night drinker dancing with their own (smaller) Gorilla?

I am confused as to the reluctance for some to want to look closer at the general topic of alcohol addiction, including this specific topic of where to draw the line between normal and abnormal drinking. I realize it isn't "necessary" as Paul puts it, but it seems to me that anyone would want to clearly define the criteria for alcoholism or "problem drinker" before agreeing to wear the label "alcoholic".

I hope this discussion group can be more than just hugs and well wishing, although I get why that is important too.

There are lots of definitions out there for Alcohol Use, Misuse, Abuse, Dependance...even Alcoholism...it's not reluctance...just for me I have been through the same conversations with myself and others. Don't really have much to contribute beyond what's been said :)

I do think there is this thirst to "understand" for many when we first get sober. Personal experience...that's a good thing. Personal experience, on this subject it really didn't help me any...and didn't answer any questions which haven't already been answered by the many doctors, pyschologists, ex drinkers, current drinkers etc that have asked them before...maybe got some better understanding of my own condition and experience though.

I guess that's why I just stick to my own experience and try to have some fun with it now. I ain't no expert and, beyond my own personal experience I ain't got no answers :)

Have fun looking though.

P

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Alcohol-misuse/Pages/Introduction.aspx

http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-consumption/moderate-binge-drinking

http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/faqs.htm

http://www.my-alcoholic-addict.com/types-of-alcoholism.html

P

So well said Paul. I think you touched on the difference here in many answers in this thought provoking post, it depends on how long you have been sober or have been at this sobriety thing.

Your comment caused me to remember back to when I first started this journey, and I to was questioning everything, wanting to understand everything, the how, the why, the everything. At some point I guess I got to that sweet spot where none of the why how or whaterever mattered. All that mattered was that I knew that I could not drink ONE drink, I was an alcoholic, a drunk, whatever you want to lable me, and all that matters is that I can't drink. Or if I do, it will be another ticket to ride back down that rabbit hole. I know that ride will be a one way ticket one of these days. Which I can't afford to risk since others depend on me being sober including myself.

I do find it an interesting topic though. It is kind of like aliens and ufo's, I do think that there are others out there somewhere, I will just wait for them to show up or for someone to find out where they are, since my looking won't count for much.

It's all perspective. More case studies and research will be done to define the undefinable. That's what I said a long time ago. Duh.

Tee hee

I love the Gorilla analogy!!!!!!

I liken this discussion to a discussion about cancer. Once you are diagnosed with cancer, it really doesn't matter the origin of the cancer (environmental, hereditary/genetic, etc) or what you call it. The only thing that matters is that it can cause extreme damage, including death, and you had better fucking do something about it.

And in my case, I don't care whether I was labeled a heavy drinker, a drunk, a lush, a barfly, a problem drinker or an alcoholic or if people whispered "I think Callie drinks too much sometimes". All that mattered was my drinking habits were killing me and I had to do something about it.

Why is it important that I "clearly define the criteria for alcoholism or "problem drinker" before agreeing to wear the label "alcoholic"?

ETA -It is me wearing the label, not anyone else.

Its Not ..unless you want (or need it to be the focal point)! The tricky part is the maintenance of soobriety as a living breathing Human Being :))
Billy

Why is it important that I "clearly define the criteria for alcoholism or "problem drinker" before agreeing to wear the label "alcoholic"?

Texi Callie, I will assume that question is directed at me, so I will attempt to answer it.

In my opinion, most people associate alcoholism and specifically the term "alcoholic" with either a disease or a genetic defect (or both) that predisposes an individual to a lack of control in regards to being able to drink alcohol "responsibly". If you view your current or past addiction to alcohol as based on either an incurable disease that you somehow picked up along the way, or a genetic abnormality that you were born with, that is certainly your choice. All I am saying is that perhaps your addiction to alcohol was or is just that, an addiction to alcohol. Or more precisely, an addiction to getting drunk through the use of alcohol. Nothing more, nothing less. And why would I (or anyone) want to mentally segregate myself as somehow inherently different from the "normal" population just because my habit of drinking alcohol became a life controlling addiction? I don't want to join the Alcoholics for Life Club and worry that my disease or my genes might cause me to drink out of control again. I just don't want that monkey (gorilla?) on my back.

Based on your previous comments and the comments of many others, I suspect there are few in this discussion group that really have a need to delve into this topic the way I feel compelled to do so. I certainly respect your perspectives and I hope you respect mine.