Native Americans have used Peyote in rituals forever....Pacific Islanders chew on Pugua to get a buzz....the list goes on. What is natural these days? I think the only way you can separate it out is the way Jersey put it. Anyhoo. I need to finish my coffee. Lol. I am just blabbing.

Dependency is the key word. I am sure they will come out with some more case studies to tell us at what point you cross the line for how many years of drinking how much...yada yada yada....Of course it is user specific.

I am not asking this question because I am trying to convert anyone or justify my own use of alcohol, but I think it is interesting and important to examine the various ways society views and defines different levels of alcohol use. There are obviously a few folks who will always see themselves as "abnormal" and/or "diseased" in regards to their alcohol addictions, and they will hold that badge close to their vest. I still contend you are more normal than you think and you are doing yourself a disservice by segregating yourself (if only mentally) from the rest of the population in this regard.

Sorry if some folks are put off by my positions on this subject, and I hope these higher level discussions regarding the subject of alcohol addiction are OK for this discussion group. If not, maybe I need to look for another place where the topic can be discussed from a more academic perspective without the fear of ruffling old feathers.

:))
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wXs_1V7KiA

I gotcha and kinda understand where you are coming from. I'm just speaking stuff off of the top of my head.

I like this topic.

Good clip Okiyoe. Hopefully this discussion group is "our class" and we can feel free to share every position we might hold. If I wanted a regimented doctrine to follow I would just take Dijjit's advice and do the 30-60 day in-patient treatment center. Not for me.

I'll be sure not to contribute again cause you know we all think the same and come from the same backgrounds.

And sorry I'm not educated enough for ya.

And that was super rude, Billy. Normal/Abnormal. Who gives a $$$$. We are all here to deal with our drinking........I think!

So anyway, back to the topic at hand.

Ex JG, in your last post you said: "if a person has two glasses of wine every night, that can be normal". But "If a person has two glasses of wine and plans their day around having the wine or can't stand the idea of not having wine, then IMO it is a sign of a problem or abnormal drinking".

IMO, the person who drinks two glasses of wine every day has already integrated the plan to get mildly drunk every day into their normal routine. And I would suggest that if you suddenly took their wine away at the end of the day and said they could not drink it that day, they would not stand for it ("can't stand the idea of not having wine"). Sure, they may not drink to oblivion every night, but they are still using alcohol to get drunk to some level.

Thanks for your input.

Ok, I won't label my drinking abnormal. Bad choice of words. How is this helpful? That label isn't negative to me.

A judgement free point of view....as the first one was meant to be:

I don't see myself as diseased or abnormal...one of those curious things that people often throw around in places like this...it can often be an echo of what someone thinks they are hearing from others amd dismisses out of hand...

Experience shows me I don't handle booze very well any more...so I don't drink it. I don't like what happens between my ears when I drink and what happens long term...so I don't do it.

Lots of other folks drink, get drunk, but don't react the way I did.

Where is the problem there? In alcohol itself? Does everyone need to stop because I have? Do I need to judge alcohol as good or bad, do I need to judge other drinkers as good or bad, sensible or wise?

No. I just stopped drinking because it doesn't suit me anymore. The problem isn't me, and the problem isn't alcohol...its somewhere in the interface between the two :)

Lots of ways you could describe that...one of them is 'Alcoholism'...generally it matches my experience very well so I use it, and I come places like this. The shoe fits and it quacks like a duck...I am an Alcoholic who doesn't drink anymore.

I have no opinion on the labels anyone else should place on themselves...drunk or sober :))

P

Buttsag, you need to join the Chronic Debaters Anonymous support group. Hehe

Wow, I think there's a lot of cross talk going on...

What's up with the suggestion about going to rehab, dij. just because Buck got philosophical?

Anyway, I think the problem is that the "norm" is actually not very healthy and alcoholism IS the norm, IMHO.

How many FB posts are there about getting drunk on the weekends, or drinking a whole bottle of wine, etc...

And I bet it's "abnormal" in our society to NOT drink at all.

I say, "F" the Norm! Get and stay sober! : D