Sorry for labouring the point but boy am I confused!!!! :-)

What they are claiming and I believe is that there IS power over THE FIRST DRINK. After that all bets are off.

I know that SMART has on line meetings and a plan of action to remain abstinent.

I do too but it's like this

I don't drink the phenomenon of craving is not awakened and I don't obsess.
I stay connected with like minded people (who are used by my HP. and keep me focused). I don't crawl around in my own head and obsess over shoulda, woulda coulda.

I am continuously learning more as I work with others daily.

My focus is not on drink and not on self. MY focus is on others and as things are set before me to take care of I do it.

richard harris- the actor- said he had pancreatitis as well as impending diabetis. when he heard that (and his death imminent) he went to the local bar and bought 2 $600 bottles of wine. his doctors had said "never again." so he drank and he cried and he drank and he cried and he......

for 10 years he did not drink again. after the 10th, ole rich drank one guiness beer every night. just one.

i am not richard harris.

I tried to tie the thoughts together in reply in # 35. We can play the semantics game all day long. Abstinence though not directly stated is implied. Spirituality is what a person deems it to be. Anything I have said here is an opinion only. I only offered my "outside of the box" observations.

Interesting topic, Nicky. I, like so many other alcoholics, looked closely into many different ways of trying to solve the drink problem but could find nothing to help me stop drinking ultimately, apart from when I gave up relying on my mind and my will - which were the real reason why I could not stop drinking! My mind was delusional so how was I going to turn that around and start to think sanely to help myself?

I think that is the crux of the difference between AA and other methods of trying to combat alcoholism - self-help or spiritual help.

When I went into treatment the treatment centre advertised itself as a 12 Step treatment centre. It took hold of the first three steps and mucked about with them to tell us all that we could help ourselves if we had enough self-analysis and counselling and God was never mentioned, except to tell us we could have a look at that when we left and got into AA.

All alcoholics need help, they have gone beyond self-help and, as the antidote to powerlessness is power, that is what I needed to seek.

For me, I had to have that power with me all the time, not just a fallible human being at the end of a phone or in a meeting and that is why my only hope was to turn to God (as I understand Him).

I have heard that some churches try to help alcoholics so that might help some religious alcoholics but I know nothing about it other than when I have noticed it mentioned by some on DS.

Nicky, There's a lot in the 41 replies here, so forgive me if I stray. Just wanted to share my thoughts. I consider ALL programs that are out there to assist the alcoholic to be based around loss of power over alcohol. If any of us had any power over alcohol, we wouldn't be here to begin with. We wouldn't be alcoholics, and we wouldn't need the support of any program or person. We'd have it covered yeah, but we don't.

I was powerless over alcohol. I have since done a ton of work to discover who I am, and who I want to be. Today I am no longer powerless over alcohol. I exercise my power of choice to maintain spiritual fitness. I choose to do the work needed, internal housekeeping, and service to others so I don't succumb to my old self-centered alcoholic ways. Vigilance. I have the power of choice to remain active in my sobriety, and that is a decisive commitment I take very seriously.

Today, there will be no mental obsession, no blank spots. That I am 100% sure of. Today I pray and trust in God to give me the strength to draw on my courage to continue on this special journey. Faith and Works go hand in hand. If I had a mental blank spot or returned obsession, it would be because I failed at one of these, if not both. Continued Action.

CHURCH IS A STRUCTURED PROGRAM WHERE INDIVIDUALS SELF WILL THEIR SOBRIETY,AND ATTEMPT CONTROL OF THEIR LIVES. IT IS THE MOST POWERFUL ENTITY OF SELF HELP THROUGH WILL POWER. IT HAS MORE MEMBERS THAN NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS, ALCHOLICS ANONYMOUS, AND ANY OTHER ANONYMOUS. THEY ARE THE SICKEST GROUP TOO.

JUST SOME THOUGHTS

Conn,

I don't know why you are yelling this morning. I also do not know what church you might belong to, but it is nothing like my experience at all of the churches I have attended and participated in.

I don't know any church that has a program that tells alcoholics to "self-will their sobriety."What are you talking about?

Perhaps you should switch churches.

Nicky- In regards to my beliefs, I've always been taught that I am powerless over my life PERIOD without a personal relationship with God. I never realized it until I started drinking and could not (or would not stop). In the end, my drinking drove home the concept of powerlessness over life, but this has to do with the teachings of my Christian faith. I actually see a lot of parallels between AA and my beliefs, so I can appreciate the program. Maybe I needed to experience true powerlessness and bondage before I could appreciate the fact that only God could help me escape it.

There is no doubt that drugs had a power over me.
In my case There is no doubt that my "recovery higher powers" do for me what I could do for myself.
However my powers come in the form of a urinalysis cup, a judge& prosecutor, steel and concrete. Now if my God is working in these mysterious ways that is none of my business. I just do what I am told to do.
Meanwhile in sobriety I have developed a severe awareness of how bigga weird-o I really am. So this recovery thing becomes more interesting and challenging on a daily basis. I don't like to lose battles.
Meanwhile my old acquaintances are thinking I might have a chance of not drinking again, so they are never around.
Presently I hang with a bunch of new friends that are just like me, learning a new way of life.