Alcoholism Support Group
Alcoholism is the continued consumption of alcoholic beverages, even when it is negatively affecting your health, work, relationships and life. If you think alcohol is causing you to lose control, it's time to seek help. Our group is a safe place to vent, check in, get back up if you fall, and reach sobriety.
Hi. I wonder if I can be of some help on this site. I have a lot of experience with addiction/alcoholism and recovery. My latest clean date is Oct. 28th, 2002. I was also clean from 6-88 to 12-94, and from 4-98 to 9-02. It has been a hell of a long haul and I am lucky to be alive as well as not having injured anyone else too badly. Alcoholism sucks and it is hard to beat. I read rational recovery and it reminded me of the "just say no" approach to keep kids from using drugs. It's not enough for me. I am a hard core addict who went so far as to stick needles in my arms. I am a black out drunk and my last drinking spree was so scary it only lasted 48 days. Alcohol got a hold of me and I was it's slave until I dragged myself back to AA and threw myself into their program even though it's a brainwashing technique I abhor.
You see, for whatever reason I drank, I drank and it put me to sleep. AA gives people an awakening. I needed that. The support cannot be matched. It is all over the world. But I am an atheist and not much into deluding my thinking more than I already do. AA is clearly not my cup of tea. Unfortunately man can fly to the moon, but the 12 steps are the best option if someone as bad as me wants to recover and stay alive. There are many like me and most go back to drinking or insanity or both.
The good thing about AA is after my brain was washed I got to hang dry it. In the meantime it kept me sober. AA doesn't prove there's a God but it does suggest a little bit about how the brain operates. I will keep going to meetings to help the next alcoholic, especially the next atheist alcoholic. They are experts on staying sober. In any situation there is a room full of people who have gone through every kind of shit you can imagine and stay sober.
I guess it's a question only myself can answer as to whether I believe in the medical model of addiction and I do for me. Once I drink I am off and running and I cannot quit till alcohol is done with me. Something goes on physically for me, I believe. If all we had to do was say no, then so many people would not die, kill others, or go insane from this "disease". I tend to think rational recovery takes a back seat to the direness of the situation.
Anyhow, I'm doing great. I have no urge to be an alcoholic again at this time. A person needs to have a chance. If you can awaken from the slumbering alcoholic state for long enough, you have a good chance to go on and get inspired to live awake again. So don't be afraid to go to AA where there are rooms full of every type of alcoholic you can think of, and give yourself a chance. I know I need the help. I probably always will. As an atheist, I have found a valuable roll in AA too.
Anything I can do for you, helps me too, and I truly admire people who have trouble with AA. "God" knows I do! lol.
You see, for whatever reason I drank, I drank and it put me to sleep. AA gives people an awakening. I needed that. The support cannot be matched. It is all over the world. But I am an atheist and not much into deluding my thinking more than I already do. AA is clearly not my cup of tea. Unfortunately man can fly to the moon, but the 12 steps are the best option if someone as bad as me wants to recover and stay alive. There are many like me and most go back to drinking or insanity or both.
The good thing about AA is after my brain was washed I got to hang dry it. In the meantime it kept me sober. AA doesn't prove there's a God but it does suggest a little bit about how the brain operates. I will keep going to meetings to help the next alcoholic, especially the next atheist alcoholic. They are experts on staying sober. In any situation there is a room full of people who have gone through every kind of shit you can imagine and stay sober.
I guess it's a question only myself can answer as to whether I believe in the medical model of addiction and I do for me. Once I drink I am off and running and I cannot quit till alcohol is done with me. Something goes on physically for me, I believe. If all we had to do was say no, then so many people would not die, kill others, or go insane from this "disease". I tend to think rational recovery takes a back seat to the direness of the situation.
Anyhow, I'm doing great. I have no urge to be an alcoholic again at this time. A person needs to have a chance. If you can awaken from the slumbering alcoholic state for long enough, you have a good chance to go on and get inspired to live awake again. So don't be afraid to go to AA where there are rooms full of every type of alcoholic you can think of, and give yourself a chance. I know I need the help. I probably always will. As an atheist, I have found a valuable roll in AA too.
Anything I can do for you, helps me too, and I truly admire people who have trouble with AA. "God" knows I do! lol.
I'm hoping there are some here who can be more helpful to you than I have managed to be.
One of my sponsees uses a relative who has passed as her HP, another uses the power of nature. That is the simplest I can put it. They just adapt the traditional prayers to become ones they can believe in. That works for them.
I still wake up,, hit me knees and simply ask for help,, from a god that i do not understand. I don't even know what I pray to, hopefully its the God that my wife knows very well. I do believe my HP'er works through other people, places and things,,,,My wife, AA, sponsor, a great judge and prosecutor,,they were all a network that I feel were specifically placed in my life for me to have hope and slowly develop my own God of my own understanding,,,NONE OF YOURS.
This is Y'alls own journey and to pushing it on others will not work.
Unsurprisingly I have lots of thoughts on the whole subject of atheism in AA. I won't bore you with them all. I would say that it isn't the easiest route to take. Far easier to follow the crowd, believe what everyone else believes and not have to think too much. My spiritual journey has been a challenge in terms of what do I believe, how does that work with a spiritual program and many other questions. But that has made it a very exciting journey full of discovery and deep fulfilment. I can't make myself believe what I don't believe. I am not refusing to give myself up to the program, I dont think i am god, i dont believe i am the greatest power that exists. I don't think I am going through a phase and will eventually see the light which is the opinion a lot of people have of atheists. So far my journey has taken me further away from the idea of god not closer to it. That could change but no signs of it so far.
I am fortunate, I live in the UK which is a lot less religious nation than some. But even saying that I think that the god aspect of the program is sometimes an easy thing to attack. Spirituality without god is possible, not just in AA but outside it too. Check out Buddhism if you don't believe that. There are reasons AA and its literature has historically been god focused - look at where and when it originated - the founders wrote of what they knew. To only see spirituality in that narrow context is the opposite of open mindedness for me.
My spiritual journey is ongoing, I still have many question a lot of which I suspect might go unanswered. I sometimes have questions about the role of atheists within AA and I work through those questions to further my own growth and help me to better carry the message.
I would say to anyone regardless of belief that if you are willing to meet challenges you face and not run away at the first sign of something that looks like it could be a hurdle then recovery in AA is possible if you really want it.
I have found that before getting sober, and certainly since, I pray to a God that I've come to believe in, but he's not a god I found in a synagogue or a church.
I've always loved the principals of buddhism and continue to read as much as I can on buddhism and buddhism and the 12 steps.
And yes, my spirituality is ongoing. And hopefully endless.
Anyway I love your post. Thanks for sharing.
This is such a wide-reaching, emotional and profound subject to explore and I think most people in this discussion have tried hard to see each others points of view and values.
Gjm, I think right and wrong just does not apply here! Personally, I believe it's what feels right and workable for the individual that is important.
I am never in these discussions to prove I am right or others are wrong. It isn't about convincing anyone or trying to change their beliefs. For me it is about trying to open up spirituality and get across to newcomers that we can recover whatever our spiritual beliefs and that we can be open minded and welcome discourse and live harmoniously with our differences.
You know what I think would be really cool is if some atheists in AA got together and made a pamphlet. There is just too much of a wealth of knowledge in the rooms to try to go at it without it.
It could encourage atheists to do a scientific investigation into how believers recover and what they do, and to see what they can do to apply it to themselves. And in the mean time learn about the disease, the different perspectives and ways of looking at life, and have the added help of rooms full of people staying abstinent. A mutual respect between peoples in the name of fulfilling our primary purpose would give me great joy.
In the mean while the pamphlet could say something along the lines of, "We may have our own group someday. But until that time, even an atheist need not die of alcoholism. We are here using AA too."
I feel like AA is still in the pioneer stages. Remember the BB was written by people 4 years sober and there was a desperation to start helping people survive.
The steps were extracted directly from the bible.
I am sure others can give you bettter wisdom, but it even goes back farther than the oxford group. To long ago to remember and i am really not interested.
What works for you is all that counts.
I remember when i thought God would come down and put his arm around me and make things all better. I thought I would change the alcoholic world.
Now, I do know, all i can do is lead by example and treat others with kindness, all in the face 2 face world.