Yes the primary purpose is to recover and to help others recover.
I've been incredibly inspired by a woman in my home group who has almost 20 years. She came in apparently a complete atheist......and used to omit the word God or HP in any reading, etc.
She doesnt do that anymore but is still an atheist.
She however has shared using tools like a 'god box.' She just didnt call it that:-) She inspired me to give it a try as if she could, and got such wonderful relief and results certainly I could at least consider it. And it, and all the other tools laid at my feet have worked for me.
I believe strongly in God but I have zero issues with anyone who doesnt -- nor do I doubt the quality of their sobriety.

I am not an addict, I am the former wife of one. I attend AlAnon, I am also an atheist. I get asked all of the time how I can make it work when I don't believe in God which seems to absolutely central to the program. I am not eloquent enough to explain that it just freaking DOES... the very fact that I am allowed to give up my attempt to control everything was such a relief that that was all I needed to embrace the program initially. I don't know who IS in control... but it's not me.... and things happen good or bad even when I am not holding the reigns and actually seems to come out better when I DON'T. My ex husband is an atheist too... he has yet been unable to get past "the God thing"-- I wish they'd change the wording... it serves as too handy an excuse. thanks for this post.

Yes, Lorna you are right atheists can and do, recover in AA. My own sponsor is an atheist - I am a Christian - oh boy have we had some interesting conversations! She is one of the most spiritual people I know and she lets me know if she thinks I am acting in an unspiritual way.

AA in the UK is not so God centred as it appears to be in the US - we are simply not as religious here. It can still feel hard though and somewhat lonely for atheists in AA and it's up to us to 'enlarge our tent' so to speak and admit all who need us - we are not required to believe in God although it can feel that way.

Thanks for posting this Lorna!

My sponsor may even post on this herself if she gets on here over the holidays!

I know people who don't believe in a religious God who recover in AA.

I came to believe in the creator God but they didn't. They do believe in SOMETHING though and that's all you really need. Even though I believe in the creator God, I am not religious. See what I mean - AA is the broadest and biggest highway a person can travel on.

There aren't any rules, the Traditions are voluntary and Bill W knew what he was saying when he described AA as a benign anarchy.

I have to smile when I see people come into AA and want to change this or that. Reminds of myself in the early days until I came to understand the sheer brilliance of it being just as it is.

Love it or hate it, it's a life saver and survivor in this world of change.

Of course atheists recover too. And there is no reason to try to make AA fit for you if you don't believe in God or a higher power. Cognitive Behavioral Therapies and AA have about the same success rates and CBT does not require a belief or dependence on a higher power.

If AA works for you then great, if it doesn't jive with your internal belief system then find something that does. The goal is to break the dependence on alcohol. It isn't about what program you use. It is about achieving an outcome -- getting your life back.

I am not confused. However I was confused for many years. It took me back to drinking, left me alone and ostersized, and vulnerable to dying of alcoholism. What I have come to believe about myself is that I do not have the capacity to believe in things I don't really believe in, for long. I can fool myself for a while. But you can't fool a fool! lol.

I have done the steps 3 times with a sponsor. I have sponsored people who stayed sober. I have recommended they believe in a god. That makes it so much easier! :) I have also had friends go back to insanity, and commit suicide. Remember although I only have 10 years and a few months right now, I have been sober in AA for 20 out of the last 24 years. I had to investigate what went wrong.

AA is not a fail proof program because it relies on a persons ability to swallow truth they may never really believe. It depends on 100% adherence. I wish there was a better way to say all this cause I don't mean to be demeaning. But the god word and making people swallow some concept of god even though they may have abandoned that way of thinking for good reason, is also demeaning.

I'll tell you what, AA's primary purpose is supposed to be to help others to recover. What I've found is that it's determination to turn otherwise non believers into believers obscures it's own primary purpose. Why shove god down people throats when it could endanger their lives? Because it works, they say. I did not say that the alcoholic brain doesn't need an awakening. Nor did I say that it doesn't need to grasp certain principles to live by.

Of course I will still go to AA. Why not? Am I not welcome? Did I not share with you how I earned my seat in the rooms? Did I not tell you that even though I believe AA could work a lot better and could do with a big change, that it is still the best thing we have going? Did I not say that I need the support and always will?

I do not know why religious people get so threatened and have such a need to make everyone agree with them. Enjoy your sobriety, like I said. But PLEASE remember that the ones who make it are the minority. This means to me that the program is not as effective as it could be. It was made for people who have no problem with the concept of conforming.

I know a lot of atheist young people I adore. Put yourself in their shoes. What is the best chance for them to recover? Only AA. It's a shame. AA has saved my life many times. I was not court ordered when I came to AA. I was dying.

In every meeting I meet new comers turned off by the steps. The 12 x 12 is humiliating to atheists. Are they really embraced as alcoholics trying to recover too? Is it necessary to humiliate anyone? Humility is something some of us had to begin with. I embraced the program. I wanted to be one of the people who never/rarely fail. But there was always something wrong.

These conversations need to be had. But in person, I am out cast. But I've seen my words comfort some trying to embrace a relationship with life that feels real to them. I have been THE ONE who HAS to speak up because the conversations in the meetings turned so religious that I KNOW the new comer will be back to drinking and may not come back to AA again before he dies or kills someone else. Do they really have a friend or is this friendship going to depend on their ability to conform to every way of thinking AA demands?

It's cool on this site because I am truly anonymous! Thanks for all your sharing!

I also want to say that I view myself as one of those "real" alcoholics. I am also from small towns and have never lived in a city over 15,000 people. I travel a lot. I NEED AA because I am a real alcoholic. I respect my disease. These other programs are almost non existent or they are such new concepts they are barely thought out.

Anyone with a good case of alcoholism knows what I mean. If there was as good an alternative, you better believe, I would take it.

This reminds me of my young thug buddy that I sponsored in prison. His name was Joe Street. We had a intense conversation about God and I will make this part short. He was walking down the hallway, he is looking back over his shoulder and is saying;;;; God has given me a disease that I have no choice whether I drink or not. (power of choice debate).. So he says "fuck it" i might as well be dead. He hung himself the next day.
My step 3 took seconds and was basically skipped. My sponsor's exact words were I really don't give a fuck what you believe, you can borrow my God and lets go.
IMOnly that's this whole deal, that's the journey..The journey being finding that power that ables alkies to go on. They say lack of power is our dilemma and it is so true,, finding what works for each of us. Some find God right out the gate and get immediate relief. The problem lies in that they feel obligated to witness like the church demands..IMOnly that hurts AA. That's why I tread lightly when talking about God.
With that being said I do believe in God, a God that I do not understand. A power that works through other people that did for me what I absolutely could not do. It is my journey and my conception will not work for anybody else.
That,s why we always refer to God as good orderly drunks, good orderly direction and so on. Who are we to force our beliefs on someone else.
Good thread, I hope your motives are clean.

People definitely get caught up in defending their own belief system eh? So much so they can't see where or how it's become a problem rather than a solution. No wonder we need this change in attitude, built so many defensive walls up I was never going to get out alive.

A power greater - perfect antidote for a guy who honestly believed he was the smartest dude alive. Good God, I love not having to be right today :o) and knowing that doesn't have to mean following others like a blind sheep...

P

I can relate Paul and I swear this is true. Once I was so delusional I truly believed that I was the second coming,,,LMFAO.
It is such a relief knowing that I am just one little particle of dust in this whole scheme.

I believe you Frankie. As for me, you me and everybody else lived in MY universe. Pet theory was billions and billions of universes, one for each person/conciousness. They overlapped sometimes, not often.

Obviously, this one was mine, so SCREW YOU buddy in my world you do what I say and you agree with me. Because I'm right.

It made perfect sense, the physics stacked up (so I thought) and it even explained things like coincidences.

Someone else is in charge today. Don't know who the hell he is, but he's doing a better job than I did.

P

Yeah, the most important thing my sponsor revealed to me was that there was a God and I wasn't it.
I was in shock!!!lol

Hi Lorna, I liked Serenity's reply and that reminded me of AA here too. We've got a pretty wide brolly that many can sit under. My thoughts on God have been similar to yours and my thoughts on AA have had me wondering sometimes by what I've read on the internet by a few who seem as obsessed with AA as they were with their drinking. Then I get back to a local meeting and the peace sinks in again. Hey, my thoughts on God have evolved over the years. Who knows where they'll take me next. Hope what you share here helps another. We're a diverse bunch with a huge umbrella. :}

Frankie, I hope my motifs are to try to make my life easier and possibly help others of like mind. I do end up feeling defensive a lot but I don't mind taking inventory. :) Check out the AA without 12 steps site on here. This IS a problem for quite a few.

As for your sponsor telling you there is a god, why does he feel this necessary? How does he know? Just because I am not in control of the world does not mean that someone else is.

I do not share your comfort in the meetings I attend. I feel like some folks would rather I not come, get drunk, or even die. It's sad really.

I find it interesting that my coins say "To thine own self be true." It is exactly these words that make me keep trying to find a place in the rooms. I think AA has proven the some things about how the brain works. If we really want to keep reaching alcoholics, if we want to stay the professionals on recovery, if our primary purpose is to reach anyone suffering regardless of religion as we say, then we do need to THINK THINK THINK about how to make this a more hospitable fellowship.

Actually this is why he is my X-sponsor,,, but he remains a very good friend. Our conceptions of God were different but we are both okay with this now.
He let me borrow his God just so we could get through the steps quickly,, just so i could get some relief. His words were actually Bob (my real name) there really is stuff out there that is powerful than you,,so lets just call it God and move on,,,,no more no less. These powers at the time were a judge, prosecutor and my wife. Like i said they did for me what I couldn't do,,, the question is;;;;were they working for a divine power,,,,thats my journey.
Truly Lorna you were talking about being humble and being humble to me is working myself downward, just knowing that i am not as important as i used to think I was. Hence, the best thing i can do for humanity is to be of service to all things, treat others the way i want to be treated and to lead by example.