I just want to add something. When I quit drinking, it wasn't because I was going to die. It had nothing to do with what it was doing to me physically. It was because of the emotional pain I was in.

Smoking has not brought me to that point.

Here is a case in point: One of our friends is a heavy smoker and a coffee drinker. There was no doubt he over-indulged. Seeing this, and meaning to be helpful, his wife commenced to admonish him about it. He admitted he was overdoing these things, but frankly said he was not ready to stop. His wife is one of those persons who really feels there is something rather sinful about those commodities, so she nagged, and her intolerance finally threw him into a fit of anger. He got drunk.

Of course our friend was wrong- dead wrong. He had to painfully admit that and mend his spiritual fences. Though he is now a most effective member of Alcoholics Anonymous, he still smokes and drinks coffee, but neither his wife nor anyone else stands in judgment. She sees she was wrong to make issue out of such a matter when his more serious ailments were being rapidly cured.

We have three little mottoes which are apropos. Here they are:

First Things First
Live and Let Live
Easy Does It."

Big Book pg.135

Oh Lord Drafter - you''re now blaming a spouse for making a man drink. What the??

These threads have been riddled with the necessity to face our own addictions and take respnsibility - and rightly so (although I still have my opinions on how Governments and oprganisations should exercise respoinsibility). If we don't take personal responsiobility and we continue to blame our drinking on others, we are on shaky ground indeed. Drafter I don't think that is a good attitude to push in terms of those people struggling to get sober or stay sober and I think it is beyond the pale.

All other opinions on this matter aside, I think you're really playing out of school with that post.

No silly. You read it wrong. The point was: nagging, intolerance and passing judgment are terrible ineffective behaviors.

Oops. Terribly, not terrible.

Bulldust Drafter: "and her intolerance finally threw him into a fit of anger. He got drunk."

It's in print buddy, you can't back out after saying something like that - it's an awful thing to say and very destructive.

I blamed everyone and everything for my drinking until I got sober. Had I continued to use other people as an excuse I'd be long dead now. My father did that through his whole life and died of it and then my Stepfather.

Having said that, I'll confess to engaging in controversy which in the end has no point but to be destructive, so I'll bail on this thread and catch you all in others threads!!

RIP toxic thread

toxic thread Drafter? Now why is it that people always say that after they've posted on the thread 3 or 4 times? LOL

Your intolerance of others that don't do what you want amazes me DT. Pretty intolerant coming from someone who used to smoke.

And Wendy, his wife's nagging didn't get the guy drunk. The anger that resulted from it did. That's what I read of what Drafter said. The BB says that it was wrong but those kinds of things do tend to happen in the real world until the spiritual malady is addressed.

I believe the more someone belabors a point over and over again, the more human beings tend to dig our heels in.

DT, you're squawking so loud that I can't hear you.

gr you've completely missed my message,

I can see that you're passionate about the subject of tobacco but can't you see the way you're coming across is causing the opposite effect of what you may be trying to achieve?

to an extent yes gr. But also I see smokers being defensive when I'm not really targeting them.
My issue is that IMO neither the recovery community nor professional treatment treat tobacco like they treat other addictions. This in turn enables tobacco to kill more of us than all other drugs combined
The rest of the country is getting off the crap, but not much us.

DT -
One page from a google search.
www.becomeanex.org/
www.smokingcessationoption.com
www.smokefree.gov/
www.stopsmoking.net/
www.stop-smoking-tips.com/
www.smokingreviews.org/
www.cancer.org/Healthy/.../GuidetoQuittingSmoking/index
www.filtrim.com/
www.stop-smoking-updates.com/
www.endthehabit.com/
Seems to me there are a lot of recovery organizations, commercial entities and public service organizations that are all over helping some one stop smoking. Anyone that wants to stop can avail themselves of a virtual cornicopia of options to quit. Anyone that doesn't want to stop won't stop.
At the risk of sounding tedious - People will only change when the pain of change becomes less than the pain of staying the same.

DT, Yes it seems through time on here ya have a passion of people that smoke. Just a few questions you live in a smaller community in upstate NY I believe. Anyway how can you assume the rest of the country is getting off the crap, but not much us. " I'm assuming your assuming, correct, pretty broad statement don't ya think? We all know what tobacco does but connecting it to alcoholism is a little far fetched for me. I remember the days of craving for that next drink to craving a for a cig, no comparison
Man why don't ya give it a rest.