>> ... someone who claims to have +25 yrs says "how dare they call it AA", how else would one respond?

I would ask for an explanation.

Gailly Are you agreeing that Nemo is a trouble maker because that is the way it reads to me.
Now I will admit that at times I don't quite understand what he is saying, if I don't it's because he has done so much more reading and research than I have and I hope that one day i will posses the depth of seelf knowledge that he has. When I do understand I find him to be extremely insightful. It appears that he has the same attitude and opinion that I do, though I don't speak for him.
I have a lot of trouble when somebody with just a few years experience tries to tell somebody like Nemo how things should be. I have been sober for a number of years and am very active in the program and I do my darnest to listen and pay attention to those who have more time than me. I realize I know only a little but I have been around awhile and seen quite a bit. I too thought I knew it all after a few short years and now I know that I still had much to learn and god has been quite willing to teach me.

Each message no matter how off it may seem can be used for spiritual enlightenment. That is, the message can help you to become more spiritual by looking at what, in you, is being offended.

I have said what I had to say in reply #12, Reed.

When I heard of the ban, I was sad. I love BBH, just as much as I love the rest of you here, and it saddens me that this has happened. I don't always agree with his posts, but I can look past them and see the good. Do none of you have a part in this? Do none of you bait? Over-analyse and turn a newcomers thread into an in-depth BB study? No wonder people are scared off this group, or as Holy said, feel like a foreign exchange student. We are all equally worthy of Gods gift. Even in this thread you are nitpicking at each other. Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy. (sigh)

Do you know CM......you speak alot of truth in your paragraph.

I know that I 'over-analyse' and that causes me to get defensive (comes out in my sarcasm).

So.......yes, a fresh start is needed here on DS for me.

Today I shall go back to helping the newcomer whole-heartedly and posting my experience, strength and hope.

Today I start again with 'aa Spoken Here' :)

M8 what you say there reminds of something my sponsor said to me.

In my cups I would justify why I drank. Big part of the reason I justified my drinking is because I knew what I was doing was wrong.

My sponsor asked me one day, in my sobriety 'do I need to justify my behaviour because in my heart I knew I had done the wrong thing?' I have looked at this statement many times and I have to agree that I justify when what I have done does not sit right in me.

When I know/believe I have done the right thing I find I have no need to justify myself. Now this does not mean sometimes I have to explain why I did something which is completely different to justify why I did it.

The lesson I learnt from my sponsor here is if I am justifing my behaviour good barometer that I have done something I am not pleased with in my heart.

Have a look at your own posts here are you justifying why you did something or are you explaining??

And finally is it illegal to drown your sponsor???

G8

I must of missed something. But I do know sometimes people get caught up in the ego trip of being "tough" and forget about the love part.
Joel

Ok....I learn nothing by hiding so I shall give my heartfelt response on the big forum where my words will sit forever! haha

I am progress. I am nearly a year sober (by the grace of my HP). I am willing to learn from those that I feel are good teachers, who work a good programme, who I admire, who are doing things the way my HP wants me to, who are leading by example with action and not just words.

Alot of the time over the past weeks, I have found this forum childish and have just thought 'what a playground'. Likewise, I am guilty of occasionally throwing my toys out of the pram and joining in. Most times, I can not be bothered. The amount of times I have thought 'what the fudge' and just wanted to go. However, my HP knows I learn and grow here.

Step 10......Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it :). I have taken personal inventory and admit my part in it in this posting. CMs post had me clearly see my part in the 'nitpicking'.

So...to answer your question.....I am partly justifying and partly explaining.

Your other question, 'is it illegal to drown your sponsor'....I dont know, I have no idea who your sponsor is.

Good share ya'll

So true, today is a new day what can add to it instead of take away

It is legal in Georgia

Billy

Are you saying it is legal to drown your sponsor in Georgia??

If so I am on my way.

G8

There was a story I enjoyed very much in the September, 2002 "Grapevine" magazine (Volume 59 Issue 4) called "The Watering Hole." The reason I like it is because it reminds me very graphically that AA isn't huggy-wuggy group therapy, much less a moral meritocracy or, still less, a charm school or mutual admiration society of people who respect and support each other's public personas.

The author told the story of how a very popular young worker at his plant got a promotion, and to help him celebrate, his boss gave him the rest of the day off. The police later determined that young man went home to his apartment, walked in on two men burglarizing the place, and they murdered him. The author had followed their trial, in part because one of the accused, a guy he calls Mike, was someone he had actually fired a few years before from the same company. Years later, this very same Mike, who had gotten the lighter sentence of the two convicted for the young worker's murder, showed up at the author's regular AA meeting. He felt his gorge rise and wanted to knock the guy senseless, and actually plotted how he could do it. But, he wrote, "Then a really strange thought hit me: I am at a watering hole."

The author then reflected that at the watering holes in the parched African savannahs, animals that are normally predator and prey completely change their usual behavior. Zebras and lions simply take turns, often within a few yards of each other. He then commented, "These primitive animals instinctively know that the watering hole is for their common good. If the zebras can't drink, the lions will starve. The watering hole is a sacred resource available to everyone. No creature may take it away from any other, or eventually all will be lost. You could say that their common welfare comes first.

"That thought and all of its implications allowed me to let go of some real anger that day. I never acknowledged Mike's presence. I think he saw me out of the corner of his eye, but he refused to look at me. After the meeting, he and his friend had the meeting secretary sign what I believe was one of those prove-it-to-the-court papers, and they immediately left. I never saw Mike again. But the realization that AA is there for our common good became cemented in me. When I saw the parallels between the meeting and the watering hole, I could never look at AA the same way again. Every person trying to gain sobriety meets the Third Tradition [the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking], whether or not they meet with my approval. No matter what may have occurred between us outside the rooms, it must remain outside. I must always remember that AA is the watering hole."

[Signed] Stephen T.
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania

For those who have subscriber access to the online Grapevine archives, the full story is posted here:

http://www.aagrapevine.org/da/article.php?id=113269&tb=3ZGE9cSUzQVdhdGVyaW5nK2hvbGUmcGc9Mw

Hi,

I have just come back to this web site, however we do have this problem occasionally in my home group. The way I deal with it is "Principles before Personalities". I really stress this with my sponsee as she is struggling with certain people, places, things or situations which are bothering her. I am still way too sensitive sometimes to what people say especially if it relates to me or my loved ones however we are all human and will make mistakes. I guess I am a "Big Book" quoter because I truly believe that the answer to all of our problems are in there we just have to find them.

Katie

>> "I must always remember that AA is the watering hole."

Certainly, and we must also remember that for at least some of us either already here or yet to come that A.A. is *the* watering hole -- there is no other -- and that we all ultimately die if it ever becomes too terribly polluted.

I used to wonder why there were/are no safeguards to protect the original A.A. experience ... then I came across two statements from Bill and Dr. Bob, one each:

"An alcoholic either practices these Steps to be the best of his ability or he certainly signs his own death warrant." (12&12 and "A.A. Comes Of Age")

From that I drew the conclusion Bill might have thought our illness would protect what was given to us.

It does not.

So, I eventually ended up hanging on to the something Dr. Bob had said:

"We wrote the book to keep our message from becoming twisted and garbled beyond all recognition."

Some people absolutely insist on "working" the Steps, and others of us know the specific difference between that and "taking" them.

How someone might drink from the watering hole is his or her own decision to make, and I cannot imagine why anyone would object to an occasional "poop patrol".

Well yes, I actually can imagine why, and I also know the Steps can even fix that.

I guess my question here is who has the right to ban someone because the do not work the program as the same as them Many in the program see's working the BB as a tool not dogma. . One thing about BBH he made me think.

Shame