Confused
Well Bret sent us an email saying he wanted no more contact, and not to ever send presents, and that he hadn't even given Jackson the presents we did send. Then of course he berated us for not caring and not coming to see them, which of course is a lie because we were all set to go when she told us to stay away. And he said we didn't care because we never asked for photos, which again is a lie because when he was here in May I practically begged him for a photo of the newest baby to add to my family wall. He kept saying how he didn't' want any more drama, and his marriage is so good now, and to leave them alone. What drama have I caused? If he truly means it and doesn't want contact and no drama, then why send that email. Everything HAS been calm and peaceful and there HAS BEEN NO CONTACT! So what is the point? And if he really feels like that about us, why did he come in May to see us and act so sweet and loving? It is like he just suddenly decided to pick a fight with us or something. I mean if things can't be normal with him, I just wish he would leave us alone in peace and stop picking at us. When I got that email I felt just sick and my stomach and I had been having such a good few weeks, happy and content with my life, and my other three grandchildren. Why does he do this?
Replies
Yes, I do get it. What\'s your sign? Funny you should bring that up, because, darn it, I happened to look at my sign the other day, and I do fit the Virgo stereotype.
Okay, deep breath....I am a Scorpio, my husband is a Pisces, Matt is an Aries, Bret is a Virgo, (lol), Mary Beth is a Capricorn, and Reed is a Leo. So there you have it. By the way, Scorpios and Pisces make great love matches because they are both water signs. And we just celebrated 34 years of marriage!
I feel sorry for Bret even more now. If he has that \"stickler for detail\" mentality, I understand why he needs helps. In the first place, it\'s impossible to meet one\'s own standards, and in the second place, it\'s very confusing to know what is important in social contexts. I can also speculate why you are so mystified by his sudden judgments. You could have used a word or a phrase that would have practically scared him to death and have no idea of that because he would not have told you. An example for me: Cousin says he is going to \"run down the other two adopted-out adult children\" of our relative. The phrase \"run them down\" chills me to the bone. Now I can think this through of course, but what it does is set up a mental image of my cousin as cold, calculating, heartless, ruthless, etc. Once that mental image is set in my head, everything else about him seems to fit that image. I can\'t think of anything about him that argues for his having any warmth at all. If you were to say, \"What about how much he likes to hang out, laugh, and talk?\" I would answer, \"Hitler loved dogs and children.\" I don\'t know if all Virgo people have this tendency or not, but I know how my mind works, and I sometimes see other people\'s minds work this way, too, so it may be just another human trait. Probably saved a lot of our ancestors from being eaten by wild animals or something. If only Bret had someone to help him see how he does that or how his thinking is being controlled by other such mechanisms, it might make enough of a difference that he wouldn\'t go on through life biting the hands that are extended to him. What work does he do? Congratulations on your 34 years. So wonderful to have a partner in life.
He\'s a lawyer. The thing is, and I know I have said this before, but for the most part, he was NOTHING like this growing up. We never had any real issues with him. Not even the normal, typical ones that usually arise during their teenage years. My other three kids were MUCH worse. Bret was the one who always obeyed the rules, in other words. And he and I were so close. We could sit and talk about anything. And he was close with the other siblings as well. In fact, the others might not get along so well, but each one of them had a special bond with him. He was the touchstone, if there is such a thing. He used to comment on what a wonderful family he had, and how family meant everything to him. I remember once his sister was dating a guy who Bret could not stand, and he was so worried that guy would molest her, or try to hurt her, and he got really involved with all of that. And of course it was nothing like that, and my daughter finally wised up and broke up with him anyway. But that guy was NOTHING compared to this psycho that Bret married. If Mary Beth was with someone like Lindsay (Bret\'s wife) Bret would try everything on earth to help her or even stop it. I mean, that is the way he was. So for this to have happened to him, of all people, when he was the great champion for our family, is just heartbreaking.
It is heart-breaking. I have no way of even guessing what has caused it. Could it be a progression to the point of crazy of a faulty mode of thinking or something quite physiological? I wonder what it was that his siblings saw that you didn\'t and suspect it was intensity, brooding, obsessive thinking, something in his eyes. It takes a bit or a lot of intensity to do law, I think.
Yes, I would say he is intense. Even his preschool teachers described him as \"earnest\" and much more serious than most kids his age. Again, I just don\'t know. I know he felt loved and appreciated. I know it because believe it or not, we used to talk about it. Call us weird, but we would have these sit down gatherings out by the fire pit and everyone would talk deep about their feelings. It was a regular occurrence at our house. What we liked about each other, what bugged us, etc. Lots of long talks that would go on for hours. I mean we were really, really close. And Bret was so proud of his family. Like I said he would go on and on about how close and wonderful his family was and how it meant everything to him. And then he met Lindsay and everything changed.
On this website, I frequently have heard it said that a spouse was a catalyst. I feel strongly that my son\'s wife had a huge role in the estrangement. If we are wrong, and I hope we are, about there being mental illness, perhaps before it is too late, there will be a maturing out of the estrangement. I\'m not holding my breath, though, or suffering over it anymore. Of course, I am left in peace, and if my son contacted me with hard words, I am sure it would be as you described it -- like a cold hand at my throat. So, how soon is your trip to the new cabin? It can be helpful to do something new, right? Even going out to a movie helps me. Did you take any of the grandkids to see Inside Out? Or Shaun the Sheep movie? Both are wonderful for adults, too. (We went without any kids to see both.) Strictly for adults, The Gift was a good movie, we thought.
Well my husband and oldest son are actually going this weekend to the cabin. I am not going this time, I just have too much stuff to do here at home. I try to go every other weekend. Did I tell you we are taking another big trip...this time to Maine? It won\'t be until June, though. And as for the movies, no, I have never taken them to movies. Really they are just now getting old enough for that sort of thing. My son\'s oldest is 3 and my daughter\'s just turned 2 this summer, so they are still a little young, although they LOVE to watch movies at home. The 2 year old loves Big Hero 6.
Your June trip to Maine sounds great. I want to go there, too, and never have. We are going to southern Arizona in December. Yes, your grandkids are too young for movie theaters, I would think. Such a nice way to get out of your head sometimes, though, perhaps.
By the way, where in birth order is Bret? Was just reading an article about anger in the NYTimes. The idea is that anger is about being undervalued. Sounds like your son was highly valued when he was growing up. Could part of the problem be that the world where he is now at work puts a lot more pressure on him and shows respect much more sparingly?
He is the second born. Technically when you have four kids, there isn\'t a middle child, but in my heart it is him. Matt is the oldest, Bret is next, Mary Beth is third (but the only girl!) and Reed is the baby. So he is the middle boy. When all this first happened I would wonder if maybe he had middle child syndrome but I had to dismiss that thought. He knew how valued he was. I will tell you this, though, even though he was super smart and was loved by the family, I would definitely consider him rather socially awkward. He did have one or two very close friends, but that was it. And really no girlfriends ever before Lindsay. And he was only 23 and she was 31 and had been married twice before!
Socially awkward and no girlfriends until marriage with 8-yrs-his-senior mental case. Smart, serious, intense are all sort of socially awkward, I would say from my experience with that. A more experienced woman comes into this scenario, and he may have felt safer out in the world, then, and she wants marriage, so he no longer has to worry about that part of life. Thinking about all this makes me wish that I had sent Johnny a statement like this: \"I respect your wish to be left alone. I respect you. You are smart and will figure all this out in perhaps different ways as time goes on, but just know you have my respect.\" Of course, I could send him an email, but since he has never responded I have no faith that he would see it. Also, I haven\'t sent him one since August 5, and that represents a number of weeks of liberation for me, liberation from longing to reconcile. If I sent him another email, could it open a closed gate that right now makes me feel safe?
Oh, there\'s the rub indeed. Do you or don\'t you? Kind of reminds me of all those evenings when it was getting late, and I wanted to phone or text one of my kids who was out on the town, and I never knew if I should or not. I mean, what if they didn\'t answer? Knowing me I would automatically assume they were lying in a ditch somewhere, hurt or killed. Then I would begin a frantic series of texts, calls, and get myself all worked up into a frenzy. So I learned a long time ago, just to turn over and go to sleep. Now deciding whether or not to email Johnny isn\'t exactly the same thing, but if you know that by not getting a response would send you into a tizzy, then I would not do it. Keep the gate closed.
I would not expect a reply and so would not get upset, but if I said one thing to him, I would probably think of another thing to say later on, just as I have with these notes to you. I think, okay, that\'s all and then another thought comes and on and on I write. I think I have finally broken the habit of trying to connect to him and would not want to risk my sobriety, so to speak, by having just one more. I also wanted to say that I sort of believe that if your son is like mine, or if my glimpse of him is valid, and if you are tempted to write your son again, maybe the only thing he needs to hear is that he has your respect. Maybe respect is more important to him than love at this point in his life.
I had never thought of that. I am not sure I could say that in all honesty, though. If I am being perfectly honest with you, I do not respect him at all. I am ashamed of him. I still love him, and I always will, and there is no power on earth that can change it, but I am just being truthful. To completely turn your back on your parents is terrible, in my faith, the way I was raised. Bret was raised like that as well. This is something I will have to pray about. You have given me something to consider though. Maybe he does crave respect. But respect must be earned. I just don\'t know.