I would not go as far as to say they do not want commitment. I would say they are incapable of it, but they may very well yearn for it, deep inside their commitment-phobiac souls. We all have our inner child - so do these men. I think we all strive for comfort, safety, the familiar, feeling good. Only some of us freak out when we get close to it, we don't know how to cope with it. Humans are social creatures - yet some of us are so afraid of allowing others to be important to us. We might have been hurt and distanced ourselves in fear, we might have grown up having no one to attach to and so we were forced to be strong by ourselves and we never learnt how to emotionally attach in a healthy way, we might have been so disappointed with the world around us that we decided the only person we could trust was us. (possibly I would argue that narcissistic men are more complicated and that they simply have a chemical makeup that makes them very "unemotional" and hence incapable of ever feeling strong attachments to anything.)


Just like Wen here said - we are the only women who will lower our standards to the point where we put up with the lack of emotional intimacy that these relationships offer.



I had the same thought you did, that the more emotionally independent woman would be a better match for my guy - he might even say the same - but truth be told, he has dated women like that, and he didn't stay with them. An independent woman is probably more likely to put demands on him (but unlike us, she might not even communicate it - she will just dump his ass when he doesn't fit her idea of what she wants - because she isn't attached to the relationship, the way we are.) Or for example, she will refuse to sleep with him if she isn't feeling good about how he is behaving around her, which will annoy him (he wants to be in control) - while us attention starved, needy women might very well take what little crumbs we get, even if we don't like the way he has been to us lately.

We feed his ego way more than the emotionally independent woman does.

The woman that is like him will 1. put in little to no effort in the relationship 2. pay very little attention to him (because just like him, she also fears intimacy.) I am not seeing a happy outcome with this.

I think these men are drawn to us not only because we "put up with them", but also because their inner child does crave the very same intimacy that they so fear. They see women who over-commit as somehow balancing their fear of intimacy - so they are attracted, even if they keep complaining about these traits. They ARE full of contradictions, not only towards us, but to themselves as well.

so sad, really.

Well put Carus.

the real issue, the thing that I don't get, is why the hell did I stick around? that's the question I need to answer.

If you're like me, it's because you thought he would change. The pattern for me is that he screws up, I distance myself because I can't handle the pain of his carelessness. He gives me about a week to breathe, starts to miss me and comes aroudn again. He never makes any promises, which is all part of teh manipulation, I suppose. I interpret his reaching out as remorse. I cave..we start up again. My wall is still up for a while so he's extra attentive towards me. When teh wall starts coming down and I feel secure enough to reciprocate his affections, he starts to pull away. I panic, then pick on some stupidity he says or does and the whole cycle starts all over again. I am so dizzy.

Have you seen M yet Miss?

no. miss him like mad

I can tell exactly the same thing, we have been going in tge same cycles for 2 years. I wonder if guys realize too.

I'm sure they do but they obviously don't cry about it