Well, I can only speak for my EX-loser/abuser. He was waaayyy dependent on me. He was like a child who could not run or live a normal adult life on his own without someone basically doing it for him. I am a very organized, go-getter/doer. Of course he didn't show this at first. I should have seen the red flags/signs, but of course way not looking/was blinded/whatever??? But after he moved in/our lives became entwined and I slowly learned what he was really like it became obvious what an immature, incompetent loser he was. Of course, i tried to "HELP" (LOL) him and gave him all kinds of chances to get his act together. I saw what a crappy work ethic he had therefore the real reason he had no decent career(always blamed it on the economy/getting laid off-but really it had been like that way before the economy went bad) I found out he was in deep debt/bill collectors/defaults aglore! He had constantly overdrawn checking accounts and never fixed them so had no checking account. He blew his lousy paychecks on beer, ciggarettes, gamling, stupid junk. I could go on and on, but basically the jest is without a "victim" he has no life other than living with his mother and then she just takes up where the girlfiends who have booted him leave off and then the cycle begins again.

Ya, that makes sense.
But what about those successful, independant, financially stable men like my bf who are incapable of emotionally committing to someone but still remain in relationships.
M has his own business, lives alone and takes care of himself. Sometimes I wish he depended on me for something. I feel invisible alot of the time.

I think everyone believes they want a relationship of some kind (at the very least, sex) so they try to be successful in a relationship without the ability.
They don't have the tools, they are incapable, but at least they have a regular place to go for sex, food, an embrace, safety.
Some are cold enough to know they are using a woman, others don't think about it that much (they don't know or care that they aren't providing what a woman wants, instead they label the woman a "nag" for trying to express what she needs).
It sounds like you're staying strong Miss. I'm so proud of you. As you know, the longer you stay away, the easier it will get (and the more clear it will become that he wasn't fulfilling what you want and need). You sound as though you're already processing it. And honestly, I understand being busy but it also sounds as though you may be avoiding him on purpose. Maybe you're inching toward finally letting him go?

I'm avoiding him because I know I'll fall. I'm not strong enough.
He has driven by my house countless times. Called and texted multiple times a day. I now shut my phone off at night because I REALLY need my sleep.
I don't feel any closer to getting over him. My bad thoughts of him have not exceeded my good thoughts.
I'm just at a point where I need to understand why he's in this, why he won't let go. I know why I'm having such difficulty, I don't get why he is.

Let me tell you a little secret. There is no sex. Since we got back together at the end of May from our last break-up, we have had sex once. Granted, we haven't seen much of each other but even when we do, our relationship never was very sexually charged. I'm extremely attracted to him and he to me but one thing I'm sure of, he is not using me for sex. This is why it is so confusing.
Another thing worth mentionning: he has a physical handicap. I always felt as though he feels 'safe' with me. I don't know...just throwing stuff out there.

Missmom75-regardless of what it is they "need" from us, financial or emotional, that is whay they are there. It is comfy for some reason, financial, or emotional or as a "front"-it looks good that they are in a relationship/fits the image that is expected of them.

Interesting--well, I can relate to the attraction minus the sexual charge. My ex and I had regular sex throughout our relationship (for the most part) but I always felt it was much more for me than for him. He was/is mostly exhausted, stressed, worn out and distracted. I too felt invisible in the landscape of daughter/ex/business/mother. The last time we had sex was March 21st. He moved out April 1st but has remained in contact with me since. He has never once made a move on me. He hugs me but that's it. I actually find it very confusing (as stated on other posts).
What is his physical handicap, if you don't mind my asking.
Thanks for sharing. When I read about narcassism, I always have to strike off 'liar' and 'sex addict' (manipulator). I don't even know if he's a narcassist or just broken. Low self-esteem with a facade of alpha male, don't f---k with me, cavalier, hippy "whatever". I am sure the low self-esteem is a factor in all of this.

He was born with clubbed feet and has had multiple surguries since birth, up until a few years ago. His feet are proportionally small and walks with a limp. Just to give you an idea: I've known him for a year and have never seen his feet. I know it sounds funny but it's true. He sleeps with socks on and well, does everything else with socks on too.
Funny you mention about your ex not making a move on you. M NEVER initiates sex. Ever. Not even teh first time we did it. I initiated everything from teh from kiss to our first sexual encounter. That's not to say that he wasn't eager to fulfill or follow through...he was. But there were never any 'booty' calls or anything of the sort. Now thsi is frustrating for me. I'm 37, he's 29. So..not only is he emotionally crippled, he is also sexually blocked. I think.
Broken? maybe. He's been cheated on twice. One of them was his ex-fiance who cheated on him with his own cousin and they are now married.

Ok, let me have it...

Let you have it? Ha ha!! Same back to me.
Sounds like similar deep-rooted issues.
It has been hard on my self-esteem and was the first time that a man I was with wasn't super sexual and keen on me in this way. I gave him a lot of power when I couldn't win him over there. It cost me a lot.

Same for me. In the beginning, he was ALL OVER ME..which i was used to with other men. Then I don't know what happened. Which is why I had suspicions that he was cheating. It's just gets wierder and wierder.

My guy is not capable of cheating. He also doesn't lie. He's just a vague communicator. When I read about narcassists, I don't think that he is one. He is not a sexual predator, he doesn't lie, he doesn't have a secret/deviant side. He does have rages when he's stressed. I have seen one since we split up. I just think I hooked up with an emotionally unavailable man who really thought he could do it and quickly figured out he couldn't but couldn't bring himself to tell me. He still holds on but even his grip is light.

I get that. light grip. it hurts.

they hang on for the same reason we do. it's hard to be alone.

But they are alone. They choose to be. We WANT the commitment, they don't. So why not be single or with someone not as emotionally clingy?

i like to say that we are THE perfect wrong match!!! we bring up stuff in them from their original wounds and they bring stuff up in us from our original wounds. they stay because we allow them to.......they stay and we keep each other sick. that's the unspoken deal in my mind. we allow them to continue to be sick and they allow us to continue to be sick and addicted. it's a deal for addicts on both sides right?? i read, why does he do that and your question made perfect sense to me!!! they stay b/c they are abusers and their value system is screwed and we want to love them into being better people. i never NEVER had a chance in changing him. he is not psychologically broken. he has an attitude of entitlement which he learnd somewhere growing up. men are not born abusers. they learn it. the book says it's not usually from their moms! it's usually from their dads.

what other woman, i'm sorry girls, but what other type of woman would tolerate what we have???

wwltm and abusers are the perfect wrong match!

Well M's parents are divorced. His relationship with his dad is a littel rocky and he adores his mom and has a great relationship with her. So ya, there may be something there.