I hear you, Dracona! The histrionic (drama) queens and kings really aggravate me! The lying . . . like, can ANYONE tell the truth?

I think for us, now, our focus is to love and protect ourselves in the masses of hurting, ill, disordered people. Maybe that is why everywhere we look we see it because we're in a boot camp to learn to trust our intuition and learn how to have healthy boundaries and not be poisoned by it and once we sort of get a grip, we will see a shift in our individual world / circumstances where we graduate to a healthier world? I sure hope so!

My problem is, im scared i will fall into the same trap because I cant help but trust people, I never want to admit that there are wicked people out there!!

I hear you tadders! I don't want to lose my faith in people and think everyone is out to stitch me up.

That was the way he thought and no way would that sit easily with me.
But neither do I want to be so gullible again. How to have a loving open heart and yet enough savvy not to let it get hurt?

Memo when you know cos I sure as hell don't!

I've had the same thoughts myself...can tell you I am pretty disillusioned about ALL men in general...and search my mind sometimes to think of "happy couples" I know who I can study...maybe that would help us? Sort of "control couples"....?! haha

Though even then I am cynical, I wonder if they are REALLY happy and what may go on behind closed doors!
I remember when I was married to my first N (1999-2003), we all wore masks, and I bet people around us thought we were happy....if only they knew!

When I was in the shower today, I got "insight"....next time, I could consider a widower!!! (around 55-60 years old, who was married for about 25-30 years). Atleast they have proven that they can have a successful marriage.......
But then again....my last xN was married for 20+ years before they divorced so that kills that theory!
(Gee his poor ex-wife.....from what I've heard she suffers from many PTSD type issues...NO WONDER!)

When I met him, I was hyper-vigilant..or so I thought...for me I had to find empathy in him...that was one of the main criteria. And he showed that.....so fine....but then I discovered that even N's can imitate that emotion (in the beginning)...so I cant use that one now.

One thing I would do now - in the future - if/when I meet a man....after every date, .I will report back to one particular girlfriend I have who has such strong boundaries and seems to be able to see things so clearly....and she is honest. Earlier in my relationship with my xN - when something had happened - I used to get an uneasy feeling that his behaviour towards me wasnt right/fair....and when I ran it passed her, she'd say "Girl, if he really loved you he wouldnt put you thru that"...or "that's typical passive aggressive behaviour" etc (she's from Texas and tells me how it is!!!)

Maybe we should all do that....have accountability partners....mentors....sponsors?!!
Using this group?

lol...just had a funny sick thought about your post, lassie...what if he's a widower because he off'ed his wife? There goes the "At least he proved he can have a successful marriage" theory. Sick, I know...I too look for the darkest possible side of everyone new that I meet...especially men....but it's getting easier to relax lately.

Dracona, it's sooooo hard to find a healthy place for our boundaries after a N encounter. I think it boils down to how much do we trust our own judgment now? It helped me to go back and re-read his early emails and spot those red flags that I didn't know about then...back before I learned about narcissism. That helps me realize that my instincts weren't "off", I had just never encountered a N so I was naive, not stupid.

If you see no red flags, don't create them. If they seem TOO interested in details of your life on a first date, then don't reveal what you are not comfortable revealing, because that is a red flag. If they seem to talk A LOT about their past relationships, don't get sucked in and see that for what it is, a red flag. Exercise a healthy caution, and you will find yourself trusting yourself a little more each day.

And definitely, it is a great idea to rely on the guidance of a friend who has good healthy boundaries. :) It certainly helps me a great deal to have all of you ladies to talk to on here as well. :)

((hugs))

lol...just had a funny sick thought about your post, lassie...what if he's a widower because he off'ed his wife? There goes the "At least he proved he can have a successful marriage" theory. Sick, I know...I too look for the darkest possible side of everyone new that I meet...especially men....but it's getting easier to relax lately.

Dracona, it's sooooo hard to find a healthy place for our boundaries after a N encounter. I think it boils down to how much do we trust our own judgment now? It helped me to go back and re-read his early emails and spot those red flags that I didn't know about then...back before I learned about narcissism. That helps me realize that my instincts weren't "off", I had just never encountered a N so I was naive, not stupid.

If you see no red flags, don't create them. If they seem TOO interested in details of your life on a first date, then don't reveal what you are not comfortable revealing, because that is a red flag. If they seem to talk A LOT about their past relationships, don't get sucked in and see that for what it is, a red flag. Exercise a healthy caution, and you will find yourself trusting yourself a little more each day.

And definitely, it is a great idea to rely on the guidance of a friend who has good healthy boundaries. :) It certainly helps me a great deal to have all of you ladies to talk to on here as well. :)

((hugs))

My little calendar for December reads:

The value of a man resides in what he gives and not in what he is capable of receiving.

I thought, wow! That will be a gauge for me going forward!

There must be contribution from both sides in a relationship! Not the taking, taking, taking that I've known (which felt so familiar to me, being a 'fixer'!)

The term for what you are experiencing is hyper-vigilance ... Being excessively vigilant or watchful, scanning the environment looking for signs of danger. It is not unusual but can be troubling. Soldiers coming home from war are at risk for hyper-vigilance and so are we. Its part of the anxiety issues that can plague us.

Not everyone is an N but everyone can occasionally exhibit some characteristics of an N. We just have to try to determine what their intent is. Remember some people hide their hurt in fallacies and not necessarily to hide a character flaw.

rayvyn, I think you are so right.! I know what you mean when you talk about been alert most of the time. Its so tiring! There isnt proper rest for us!

Dracona, I think treating yourself with a doctor is the best thing you can do for a while. Feeling tired most of the time, and been alert to what people say of do is hard but we can overcome this situation.

I dont think everybody is an N. There are normal people out there. Its just a shame that we are surrounded by then. We have to remember that we are coming from a dysfunctional family and maybe that is what we are. I dont know any perfect couple, but if you dont want to be dissappointed is better not to hold for perfection. Having a happy life is what we should aim for.

What rayvn said ...LOL

But serioiusly, it is the same as when you buy a new car. You never noticed red BMW's before, but once you buy one, you see them everywhere for the first couple of months and then you stop noticing them again.

It will calm down and even out eventually.

Tadders:

RE: My problem is, im scared i will fall into the same trap because I cant help but trust people, I never want to admit that there are wicked people out there!!

Before xn, I, much like Anne Frank, believed in the good in everyone. I am going to go ahead and give Anne a pass for being 13. Maybe at age 45 that would be considered a 'naive world view'. I would have debated you for an hour straight that evil did not exist. I had a sign above my fireplace that read: Live in the Light. And I really believe that because I was such a good, kind, big hearted and decent person that no harm would come to me.

I now know that a good, kind, big hearted and decent person is called a Narc magnet.

susy, you gave me chills, my ex bought a red bmw before we broke up, i think i told you about it. now i see them everywhere, i had a dream about it before he bought it and knew something was wrong, he got it the next day!

I used to be kind, and big hearted, saw good in everyone, now i pick out the bad it seems. im kinda a prude.
i dont enjoy peoples company like i used to. id rather be alone most days. i just dont have the patience, or the tolerence anymore. my patience is ZERO now just about. it takes everything i have to go to work, since i work with the public. my job is to have customer service, and smile, while someone is calling me every name under the sun and saying some pretty harsh things, because they just lost their money at the casino. so i see alot of people at their worst. people arent themselves when they drink and gamble, well most arent. say there is this guy who im sure is a great dad and if you saw him in the store he would help you out to your car... stop and help change a tire for a stranger type of guy and wouldnt say a harsh word to anyone. put him in a casino down a couple bucks, and he is a raging asshole. i make note to self, ok, dont want to associate with this person. hes an ass and saying some pretty mean stuff to me.
say me and some co workers/friends are in a store, and they are friends with this guy... they exchange pleasantries, hugs... talk about getting together, i smile and nod whatever as he tries to make pleasant conversation with me, wondering why everyone excuses his awful behavior? wondering why he doesnt even seem to feel bad that he was calling me some very personal names and hardly knowing who i was. the things he says get so personal and mean... who would do such a thing? but everyone is still friends with him? wants to hang out with him? i dont get it. ive been a compulsive gambler. ive lost tons, ive never yelled and said mean things like that. it just boggles me, as to why, people would want to hang out with this person. makes me feel crazy. like i did in my relationships. am i overreacting? this is just an example story, but i think you all get my drift. I have co workers who bitch and whine and complain and argue with the bosses. i never do those things. i dont "hustle" tips. like say things to try to make people tip me, or steal other people's customers. i follow the rules as much as i possibly can, and am polite as i can be most times, and try to do my best. i nearly get fired. while the bitchy ones get promoted? if i were to even complain like that, i would be suspended. i just dont get what got those bitchy whiny sloppy workers do, to get in the good graces... of the person who writes the memo to not complain or argue with the boss.
how do they not get fired, but somehow i nearly do and they wont even tell me why? just wondering.
i lost my faith in people. im always looking for the bad. its hard to find good these days. there are very few people who i consider true, and really enjoy. i dont think every one is out to get ME... i just cant play politics. i say it like i see it, sometimes i have no tact i supose, but why should i have to have tact, when someone is the one trying to embellish a story or create an entire new one, or act like they arent truly assholes. so, its hard for me to make new friends

Susy is right...it will calm down and even out eventually. Your awareness will not only protect you but allow you to be a little more discretionary when you do start allowing people into your life. i know many but trust very few. For my own self preservation I had to learn that "forgiveness is given but trust is EARNED'"

Hang in there, love.

One more tidbit...I may completely off base here...but it seems to me that you are just learning to trust your instincts and intuition again.

Dracona,

RE: makes me feel crazy. like i did in my relationships.

This is a highly important point. You know how I am about the books, but one I really liked was: The Gift of Fear. My therapist is HUGE on somatic reactions to others. That is what she has taught me. That to pay attention when people give you the same body sensations as other destrutive people in your life.

So do not discount that.

We all have our own particular limits to how much social interaction feels 'right' for us. It sounds to me like you are so exposed to others in your job that you need extra down time to be by yourself and with your sweet family.

You know you are having to deal with all this healing on your own, with no professional support and trying to self manage the PTSD symptoms. It will all work itself out.