to pay off my ex boyfriend’s mortgage, the one who just dumped me...Then I was going to stop claiming for child support from my ex husband..And then give a 100k to each person who had been instrumental in helping me work out a way to buy my dream house over the last few weeks, from the bank staff to my real estate agent.
Before you read the rest of the post, take a few minutes to imagine the top 5 things you would do if you won that sort of money..If you are able to, please write them down to share later.

You can all admire me for my extreme generosity or you can point out what is wrong with this picture. I drive a 16 year old car. I buy all my clothes on sale and my main source of income is a disability pension from when I had to retire from my corporate role 3 years ago. I did not have a single thought of spending a cent of that money on myself.When I emailed my friend the next morning and told him what I had been considering doing if I had won that much money, he responded by coming back with a list of things he had put some thought to in his spare time and it read like this..
1. Buy a beachside house,
2. Buy a nice car,
3. Set up a trust fund for the kids
4. Set up an investment portfolio that returned enough to live off.
5. Have a long holiday to south America
6. Of the amount that is remaining would give some to charity
7. And if there was some left after all that...maybe pay off my mortgage?
Take note ladies, this is what a normal person’s list looks like...Why is mine so different?
When I was younger this problem was much worse. I gave away more than I could afford to family and friends, leaving myself destitute for most of the month.I got into all sorts of financial trouble over the years because of not saying no to family and friends who wanted to borrow money. As I got older and more aware of my lack of self esteem I realised that instead of being a very giving person, this was actually a pathological inability to take care of my own needs.
When I had to retire from my corporate career which came with a 6 figure salary and 15% bonus and knuckle down to live on a much reduced income, I realised I would have to do it all alone. Even my sister and parents shrugged off my situation to the point of not repaying money lent over the years with the promise of paying back..Having a son to look after, I was forced to cut back on my generosity for his sake if not mine. Since then, I have worked really hard to not give money to anyone if I simply felt obliged and instead only do it when I truly felt like giving. It has been tough because my low self esteem was always saying someone other than me deserved it more...
Thinking more about this topic I know this same dynamic comes into play in giving or receiving gifts, how we eat and exercise, saying yes when we want to say no, asking for a favour, getting money back from someone we loaned it to, speaking up to get something in a group situation, taking credit for a job in a work situation, in fact all of the other self sacrificing behaviour we undertake with the justification that other people need it more than we do...
This same dynamic comes into play when we give up our power in a relationship, even though we know deep down that we can do a better job of looking after ourselves than the person we are depending on. It comes into play during intimacy when we accept things that we are not comfortable with or accept less than we want because we don’t want to make waves...
So while my original post was meant to be about money, it is clear that it is really about how we value ourselves...
Think of all the people you have dated in your life and the value you placed upon them when you were with them. Now imagine bestowing upon yourself that very same value. It is really difficult, but when you begin to think about it you realise that your ruler or measurement device is flawed. Throw away that ruler and get a new one, one that shows you up on the far end of the scale.
It won’t happen overnight, it is a process or a journey. But the more work you do in caring for your own needs and making decisions mindfully, the easier it becomes. I am not there yet by a long shot as you can see from my lottery wish list, but at least this time I could see it was wrong...

I would love to know what you think and how money links in with your life..

For some reason the post truncated while I was posting it..

Lucidak,


That was one of the most powerful post I have ever read in my life. I bow my head to you- it was awesome. I read it and I devoured it. I kept thinking man this is so good- so true- so on point. I am so glad you wrote this.

When you talked about the lottery ticket I could have screamed. You know what my top five is- I would split it equally between my brother, my sister, and myself. When they talk about winning it they do not talk about splitting it with me. I give way to much- I give money to homeless people (a lot) I over tip even for so-so service. My son is kind of spoiled. But I shop on the clearance rack, I don't go to the dr like I should. Hell, I don't take care of myself and it makes me resent the hell out of people. I really wish I did place the value upon my head that I place upon the heads of others. You know I don't feel worthy of my money, or a high paying job, or believe that I could be paid well for my gifts and talents. I think when it comes down to it I have a hard time believing that I will receive the good things in life.

My hand cant type as fast as my mind is going- Case in point I am sick as hell today. I cant stop coughing my chest hurts my stomach hurts----I woke up feeling better so instead of just laying back and taking it easy I cleaned the whole house and washed 4 loads of clothes---now I feel even worse. Why? Why, did I do that to myself.

If I have not told you---this was a great post.

Lucidak,

Not to put you on the spot- but I feel like you suggest awareness that we do it--- and then making more conscious choices to take care of ourselves. Did I get hat right.

I just wonder how do we begin to value ourselves----or maybe that is just a part of the recovery process.
Tell me what you think

I have a wonderful reply to this! I love this post. Thank you for bringing it up. I had started my own CPA firm after getting my license back in 07. I desperately needed clients so I took on anyone at very low rates. Actually I had no rates it was what the client was willing to pay. Well I soon learned that I was not even making McDonalds wages for all the work I was doing. This made me angry and bitter. Did'nt people think I was worth it??Why were they being so cheap!! Well as you can guess the business limped along. I would become more and more frustrated each year. Finally after several years the economic slump hit and now things were really bad. So I got severly depressed and told myself that I did not know how to run a business. It was my lack of knowledge at being a manager. Well I was given a gift. A gift I have always cherished and knew was a gift, but I did not listen well. The gift is my business mentor. He is an older guy that has truly taken me under his wing since I started. I do contract work with him and in trade for lower rates he is to mentor me. He tries! But I have not really listened. He has simply told me that if I just charge what I think I am worth, the business will thrive and take care of itself. So he asks me "how much do you want to make at the end of the year?" Now how many hours do you want to work? Now divide that and that will be your hourly rate. Simple right? Well for most people it would be, but not me because I don't know how to stand up for myself and ASK for what I am worth. So for several years I have still limped along. Well just this last year after crying and saying I just can't seem to make it he yelled at me! He said "just don't charge ANYONE less than your hourly rate!! anyone!! So I thought what do I have to lose? Nothing that I think isnt already going to the crapper. So I tried it. And guess what? Most, not all, paid the fee without hesitation. The ones that did not pay went away and I realized I have more time for the ones that do pay. It taught me that it is not them or my lack of knowledge of anything, it is my own self worth. How much do I value myself. Yes it plays out in all aspects of our lives. I see that clearly now. But having said that it is also very very hard to change. I still will fall back into not charging the rate I need to and then kick myself for doing it. It's a very very slow process, but it all starts with awareness of the true problem. Here is my list just off the top of my head about winning the lottery:

1. Buy myself a house to call my home.
2. Payoff my husbands debts.
3. Payoff my parents debts.
4. Invest enough to live off interest.
5. Give to my favorite Charity.
6. Go on a vacation
7. Help my kids, but not give them money so they don't value it.

Shani, I think your post was another great example of how WWLTM issues show up in all areas of our lives. I think we have to allow ourselves a learning curve- we cant expect to get it right each and every time. We just have to keep moving forward. I am so glad that you are charging what you deserve. It reminds me--I was baking cakes for fun but people liked them so I started selling them for 20. I was practically giving my cakes away--so I tried to charge more but I just became so fearful that my cakes were not worth the money that I just stopped baking cakes. You can hardly get four cupcakes for 20 bucks- not a homemade 10in cake.

Not to hog all the responses but---most of the men I have dated have been self-ish and immature with their money. They overspent, did not pay bills, were in debt, and on and on. I wonder if that is a pattern that WWLTM see in their relationships we don't feel worthy of the money we have -we date men who don't honor the money they have either.

Thank you Izzy and Shani...I was very hesitant in posting this thinking it would not be good enough. But since I am increasingly aware that I self sabotage my good work, I went ahead and did it anyway...Your feedback means so much more than I can say..

Yes, Izzzy, you are right. It is in increasing our awareness of what is happening that we can do things differently. But that awareness doesn't see the light of day if we don't start valuing ourselves..So it is a two fold process. And I have the flu as well. I took my son to the doctor on Wednesday but held back from seeing her myself..It's not even about money because my insurance will pay for it. It is that feeling that I can make do..

When you start giving only when you whole heartedly feel the urge to do so, you stop resenting your giving and you create this magic which brings you back much more than you gave away..And that is the place we need to get to. Not to be like scrooge and hold everything close and not give anything to anyone. We are very special people who have open hearts..We need to stay with that but learn how to do it without causing harm to ourselves... Your last question...I need to think about that and come back with a response..Never considered that.

Shani..I salute you..You have given a really good example of what I am talking about..it demonstrates that you understand how this value we place on ourselves affects every other area of our lives. What is even more incredible is you are now seeing results from making that change.

Ladies, if we can figure this one out, our lives would be a whole lot different...

Thank-you, thank-you, THANK-YOU for writing this post. As well, I have appreciated all of the responses from the ladies here. WOW. And on so many levels. It was what I needed today. I came on the site today to vent in my journal and then I thought I'd pop into the discussion room--something told me I should check--and lo and behold...the pick-me-up to my ailment. Thanks again.

xoxo

I am very glad artgrrl..

When I first came back on here 3 and a bit weeks ago, there wasn't a lot of activity. But something has shifted and the whole site seems more vibrant. We are all contributing to it and it is doing all of us a lot of good. Thank you to everyone who reads and contributes..You have all been a great help...

Finn brought up a point for me that I guess I still did not address. How did I FEEL when all this happened? Well I felt worthless when I would not ask for my correct fee and accept less. I felt like "why won't the people see how valuable MY work is? Why am I treated different from other professionals? All the Why's and no answers. Then when I asked for the fee I was actually terrified!! I thought they would complain. They would get up and walk out and then I would have no clients. I was nervous and scared. But with each one it got easier. I began to feel just a little more confident. Now it still depends on what day you get me. Most days I will stick to my fee and tell you sorry you cannot have the Tax Return until you pay my FULL fee and that is just my professional policy! Other days I might do it cheap still if you are a good friend and I feel vulnerable.

Shani, I think we have all been there...And sometimes it is a case of fake it till you make it I guess. The most important thing is you have seen the benefits of doing it. Your mentor kept telling you, but until you actually started doing it you did not understand the difference it would make..

When I was a teenager, going to bed was an agonizing thing because it was then I would reexamine my day and beat myself up for all the things I did wrong that day. In particular talking too much or revealing intimate details of my life to others and cringing inside about it...I have come a long way from there...but it helps me to remember how little I appreciated myself those days...

It is ok to be terrified. The important thing is you are doing it..Way to go girl...Really proud of you:)

this is exactly what i had hoped for on a discussion on money.

perfect timing too. my nephew just turned 13 last night we celebrated and i gave him a 35$ net for his lacrosse that he really wanted. and that's it. i have always given each nephew 100$ for their birhtdays. and at the end of those months i would be broke.

on the other hand my best friend's son's bday is this weekend and i consider him a nephew too and give him 100$ for his bday too. i can't bare to tell my friend i don't have the money after i just spoiled her daughter an dmy god daughter as much as i possibly could have going away to college, graduating from high school and turning 18. hundreds of dollars. so i still plan to give my friends son 100$ for his birthday. despite the fact that i didn't even give my brother's kid 100$ this year AND i will be broke this month b/c it 's a 5 week month. what the hell!

i feel guilty as hell that i have changed tradition on my nephew. i want to give him the moon!!! one year i saved the entire year and took all 4 nephews on a weekend surfing trip. hotel, two surf lessons, boardwalk, food for four teenage boys, etc..... gifts etc. it was 2000$. i wanted to do this every year but this year i could afford it b/c of all the kid's graduations and 18th bdays this year. i had 3 friend's kids turn 18 and graduate and go off to college. this is besides the point but only one of those kids even thanked me. and so i'm resentful! how codependent is that???

i spend money on my nannikins here and there once in awhile. i don't charge for hours that i work. she lets me pay for activities like movies. that's 50$ right there. i only make 20$ an hour.

i have deeply rooted money issues. i'm working on it and that book i mentioned is pretty great! it's not about money management, its all about how money is actually about how we value ourselves... overcoming under earning by barbara stanny

for the lottery: i mostly would get a house, pay off my brother's and parent's mortgage and donate much of it. TBC....

This is a great post and you are right, there is a definite correlation between this and how we behave in our relationships. I can definitely identify with your list. I used to always fantasize about winning the lottery and plan out what I'd do with the money. My list sounded much like yours. I'd buy a boat for my grandpa, a new truck to pull it with, pay off my parent's mortgage, blah blah blah. My list almost entirely revolved around other people.

Now, as I've become less codependent over the years, I don't think about doing those things anymore. The problem is, I've still had a really hard time shifting focus onto myself. It's like I'm just in this big black hole area. If I won the lottery, I can't think of much I'd do for myself aside from paying off debt. My depression has been so severe, especially in this past year and a half, that I can't think of anything enjoyable. But at least I'm no longer so focused on giving to other people.

Finn, I think between you and Izzy, you have created something a whole lot bigger than a mere discussion for women in recovery...Thank you....

It's baby steps..Instead of feeling guilty about giving your nephew less, feel good about sticking to your plan...I understand your difficulty with your friend's son..Do what you have to do with awareness and it will get easier. If I was in that situation, I might consider breaking from tradition and doing something radically different for this birthday this year that cannot be measured in money...Something like a voucher saying you will pick him up from anywhere anytime if he ever needs a ride home and can't call mum...Your reluctance comes down to the core issue we are talking about here which is we feel like our friends and family will like us less if we stop giving like we have always given. Like Shani felt when she had to tell her clients to pay their bills. But look where sticking to it got her.

I have financial supported my parents for a long time. Finally after taking medical retirement from my job, I stopped. The help I have given them and my sister over the years have put them in a place where they can all fend for themselves. They were very unhappy with the situation and my mother said a lot of bad things through friends and family about how I was not a good daughter any more. But I stuck with it and last year she actually gave me $50 for my birthday:)

Here's my problem--I give away most of my art. Last year I gave away close to 10 pieces that should have been at least 100 each. Even when I finally started charging for my art I grossly under-charged. This summer when I was putting together a small collection to exhibit I thought: "Look, if I am under-selling my art not only do I lose, but the gallery owner loses as well". So it is not only you who benefits when you divest yourself of false modesty". This time around I increased my price by 300%. It'll be interesting to see if it sells any faster than last time (which was hardly anything). This was actually before I started thinking seriously about what it meant to sell yourself short in a relationship; what it was was that I realized that my stuff was just as good if not better than a lot of stuff that was selling for heaps more. I thought--"screw it, I'm going to sell this at a price that honors the quality". Now--to translate that over to relationships!

Re: Lottery. Interestingly enough, I have always included giving my ex-husband $ in my lottery fantasies. Additionally, my siblings as well. My two brothers--I am certain--would not give me a penny of their winnings in the event that THEY won the lottery. I have thought about this this before, and unconsciously, I think that one of the reasons I have wanted to be the generous one has been because it makes me feel morally acceptable when I am the giving one. So much for unselfishness, lol. This is all about pseudo modesty!