I understand what you are going through....

I was just sitting here crying because I don't understand why my guy constantly plays games with my emotions...he also says I am insecure and needy and he won't say things to me either.

I keep telling myself that I am a great woman and any man would be lucky to have me - but why do I keep hurting myself. I have to remember that it isn't him hurting me - it's me hurting myself. I am the only person with the power to make myself happy or miserable.

We need to get strong and love ourselves first - no one else is going to love us until we do that...

I know, I know…I do it to myself - its like I get a little possessed with something! Like a madness, a fear…it makes me feel just horrible.
Yes I admit I am needy and need reassurance. The slightest little comment or glance and Im on edge.
My H is one for slight little put downs, the ones you hardly notice til later…but they all eat away at the little bit of confidence I have left.
I know I am overly sensitive. I know that…so I suppose I make allowances for him and for my over reactions.

anyway thanks hurtinMD.
a hug from me.
We rock! - well we try to!!!
xxx

Hi sunny,

To me this sounds like it's his issue and not yours. Honestly, how big of a deal is it to say 'I love you'. I feel like when you really needed it, if that's what you really needed, he should have told you that. Especially if you both have already discussed this.

Our partners are supposed to love us and be there for us when we need them, not withhold affection and play games. It would have been very easy for him to simply say I love you and give you peace of mind, rather than leave you feeling full of anxiety. His behavior strikes me as selfish and a bit cruel.

I just want to let you know that not everything is always your fault. We all have needs in a relationship, and it's okay to need to be told that you are loved. If he asked you to tell him you loved him, would you? I think that you would. So why is it ok when he does that to you? It's not.

Big hugs.

yeh goingup!
good point.

Im always aware Im needy.
but he knows this and I think he likes that it makes me vulnerable and reliant on him.

it did feel like control and manipulation and I was laying there just thinking he was just nasty and spiteful.

I just don't like the way it makes me behave….the neediness.
x

Hi sunny. His behaviors sound to me dangerously close to what is known as the 'water torturer', the type of man who continually degrades his partner through low-level cutting remarks, etc. It bothers me that you say that he likes you to feel vulnerable and reliant on him. I have some info below for you from "Why Does He Do That" by Lundy Bancroft. I highly recommend this book to you.

//

ABUSER STYLES

1. Demand man

-has little sense of give and take
-exaggerates/overvalues his own contributions
-punishes you when he feels he doesn’t get what he is due
-when he is supportive/generous, because he feels like it and its self-serving
-if your needs ever conflict with his, he is furious
-believes he is above criticism
-believes you should be grateful for whatever he chooses to give
-believes you should not place demands on him at all

2. Mr Right
-believes:
-you should be in awe of his intelligence and look up to him
Intellectually
-your opinions aren’t worth listening to or being taken seriously
-if you sometimes disagree with him, it shows how sloppy
Your thinking is
-disagreeing with him is mistreatment of him
-if he puts you down long enough, you will see
-he knows how you should live your life


3. The Water Torturer

-can assault his partner psychologically without raising his voice
-uses a repertoire of aggressive conversation tactics at low volume including sarcasm, derision, and cruel, cutting remarks
-superior or contemptuous
-tends to take things she says and twist them beyond recognition to make her appear absurd
-gets to his partner through a slow but steady stream of low-level emotional assaults.
-convinces you and others that you are crazy and fly off the handle over nothing

4. The Drill Sergeant

-I need to control your every move or you will do it wrong
-I know the exact way everything should be done
-you shouldn’t have anyone else, or anything else in your life besides me
-I’m going to watch you like a hawk to keep you from developing strength or independence
-I love you more than anyone in the world, but you disgust me

5. Mister Sensitive

-I’m against macho men, so I couldn’t be abusive
-as long as I use a lot of ‘psychobabble’, no one is going to believe I am mistreating you
-I can control you by analyzing how your mind and emotions work, and what your issues are from childhood. I can get inside your head whether you want me there or not
-nothing in the world is more important than my feelings
-women should be grateful to me for not being like other men

6. The Player

-often starts to stall on moving in together or agreeing to be exclusive, even though earlier he couldn’t wait to get serious
-much of his satisfaction in life comes from exploiting women and feeling like a sexual animal
-even if he’s telling the truth, which he usually isn’t, his flirtatious behavior can be as damaging as actual affairs
-you will start to perceive any woman as a potential threat to you
-he is irresponsible, callous in dealing with his partner’s feelings, and periodically verbally abusive
-as the relationship progresses, he will go for long periods barely speaking to her, making her feel shelved
-his abusiveness can escalate abruptly if he is confronted or caught in his infidelities
-his partner is likely to focus on her hurt feelings over his infidelities and pour effort into stopping him straying and, in the process, lose sight of his pattern of abuse
-his promiscuity is symptom of a deeper problem: he is incapable of taking women seriously as human beings rather than as playthings. With that mind-set he will be a destructive partner whether he cheats or not.

7. Rambo

-it isn’t macho men women should watch out for, its violence and intimidation toward anyone, and disrespect and superiority towards women
-strength and aggressiveness are good, compassion and conflict resolution are bad
-anything remotely associated with homosexuality should be avoided at all costs
-women are inferior and here to serve men and be protected by them
-men should only hit women to keep them in line
-”you are a thing that belongs to me, akin to a trophy”

8. The Victim

-knows how to present himself as helpless and pathetic so you will find it harder to take your own life back
-everyone is always wronging him and he is always blameless
-”everyone has done me wrong especially the women I’ve been involved with”
-”its justifiable for me to do to you whatever I feel like you are doing to me, and even make it quite a bit worse to make sure you get the message”
-women who claim of mistreatment by men are anti-male
-I’ve had it so hard, I’m not responsible for my actions
-speaks in degrading or superior ways about his former partner

9. The Terrorist

-you have no right to defy or leave me. Your life is in my hands
-women are evil and have to be kept terrorized to prevent evil coming forth
-I would rather die than accept your right to independence
-the children are one of the best tools I can use to make you fearful
-seeing you terrified is exciting and satisfying

The Mentally Ill/Addicted Abuser
-abusers tend to go off medication before long

*an abuser may change so much from day to day, he doesn’t belong to ANY type*

Antisocial Personality
-started getting into illegal behavior while a teen
-dishonest/aggressive behavior involves situations other than his partner, rather than being restricted to her
-periodically gets in trouble at workplaces/other contexts for stealing, threatening, refusing to follow instructions, likely to have a criminal record
-is severely and chronically irresponsible in a way that disrupts the lives of others or creates danger
-tends to cheat on women a lot, and maintain shallow relationships with them
-lacks a conscience
-very difficult to change through therapy

NPD
-your partner’s self-centeredness is severe and carries over into situations that don’t involve you
-seems to relate everything back to himself
-outraged whenever anyone criticizes him and is incapable of considering he could be anything other than kind or generous
-an abuser with this disorder is highly resistant to therapy and not able to change substantially through an abuser program

Hi goingup… I have that book! thanks for typing all that and reminding me.

I realise he does these little jibes, he denies it of course. Even last night he said 'oh its typical of you to make it difficult' ( he had randomly asked me if I kept tinned tuna in..?! …I asked why do you ask?! ) and the little undercurrent of keeping me in my place.

He protests his innocence at being a 'player' even though he cheated on every one of his relationships….usually with his next wife!….but he has no remorse or doesn't think that makes him a serial cheat or adulterer. I don't get it. But he calls me disgusting minded that I say that….of course he's beyond reproach and 'really not like that at all'...

I look in the mirror and see myself crumbling and ageing, looking back at photos before and around the time we met I look ten years younger, well to me I do!!! It must be the stress or something…!!!

sorry to ramble.
my point is that - I can understand why he does that…but then I realise how much at fault I am in everything and flip back to it must be me…..

its tough going inside my head some days!!!

The hardest part is that I crave the person I get at night with him. Not the sex, but the holding and the sweet words. He's like a different person and it gets me through the day to know I will have that at night. If he with holds it Im a mess ( as previous post!!!) and of course I feel my only use to him is to satisfy him sexually.
xxx

sunny. ..you are focusing on the content instead of the process. this is the same story with different material. are you still trying to fix him?? you are still in the fantasy.

are you a super sensitive person?? have you always been?? was your family harsh? controlling? invalidating?? angry?? growing up.....do you have a life worth living?? do you ever feel suicidal? do you ever feel like you are going to explode or die from the intensity of your feelings?? like you're gonna lose it?? how can you make it??

if you kept the focus on yourself and not on his cheating you might uncover the worst part for you is your fear of abandonment and rejection?? if you stay focused on that you can heal. as long as you stay locked in this fear cycle of him cheating and expecting him to meet your needs when clearly he won't, intentionally he won't, you will be able to heal.......this isn't about him. pick up the mirror and see your part. see your reactions as yours. you said you are so needy. how can you start to meet your own needs?? without demanding him to do it?????? why do you need him to say i love you so BADLY?? you stayed up all night b/c of that fear inside of you not because he did not meet your needs. it is not his responsibility to soothe your anxiety it it yours.

i don't get the tinned tuna question?? what is he referring to?? a smell? a female smell?? b/c that is unacceptable. where is your anger woman??? put a stop to that comment. do not accept that! go sleep in the other room if he says that again. think of your spine as a little seedling growing big and tall reaching toward the sky where the strong warmth is. your courage is growing to stand up for yourself. take a stand. make a change. make a shift in your thinking. if he cheats on you sunny it says more about him than it does about you. it says he has no integrity. is that who you want to be married to??? if he cheats on you and then blames you for it he would be a louse. a pathetic weak louse of a man who is abusive and irresponsible. is that who you want to be married to??

i really think you would benefit from

complex ptsd-from surviving to thriving by pete walker.

i see in you what i used to do until i found compassion for myself and my spine grew strong. tell me where i'm wrong....you are completely dependent on him for everything under the sun. you have no identity of your own. you don't know who you are, he defines you. everything you do is in reaction to him and his needs. you expect yourself to be different to change your reactions and emotions, even as intense as they are, but you cannot b/c there are bigger forces going on inside of you that you cannot control. and yet because you can't you use that to beat up on yourself. you make everything about your lack. yet there is anger underneath it all. on some level you realize he does not treat you right. but going there means you have to change what you're doing so you stay focused on the content, the fears of rejection and abandonment and on your weakness and blame yourself. it's like a puzzle you are determined to solve. still trying to make it work. it's easier to live in the fantasy than in reality b/c that is way too painful. tell me where i'm wrong sunny???

this is not a simple fix. this is really deep childhood wounds having nothing to do with him. if you divorced him today you would take these same behaviors to your next relationship.

what are you willing to do to get better sunny???? what if i promised you you could??? what if i promised you the pain you feel inside on a daily basis can get better??? what would you do?????? how far would you be willing to go to get that peace?????? if not that's okay, you're little plant needs a little more time to rise toward the sky...your spine is getting stronger and bigger day by day like a bean stalk..........if you're willing to do anything........?????????????

get in DBT and order that book by pete walker today...........i promise you if you are willing to work for it, peace can be yours....

i am heavy handed. a little confrontational sunny b/c i think where you have the biggest reaction to what i'm saying there is a chink in the armor. an opening in the window through which you can begin to fly......

i know how hopeless it can feel...you are actually able to make a new choice. one small choice on any given day to find compassion for yourself. you do not have compassion for yourself. the way you talk about yourself in these posts is sad. yet i see glimmers of hope.

that's what we need to build on......your hope but your hope for yourself and your own healing. not hope for the marriage. this journey whether you stay married or not is a solo journey. he cannot help you. he undermines you and puts you down endlessly. he is your abuser. your journey will be much harder b/c you are trying to heal a relationship which may or may not be healed, most likely not and certainly not without his dire commitment. he doesn't see any problems so the problem of your unhappiness is yours. without extreme support i think your journey may be or feel nearly impossible. b/c your focus will continually go back to him...

it's not hopeless sunny but i don't think you're there yet. when you are crawling on your knees begging to do anything to stop your pain you will begin....... desire isn't enough. willingness is what it takes. and then action. no matter where you start. books, DBT, linden method, or david burns......stick with it............and we're here for you a lllllllllll the way!!!!! whatever you decide. and like i said i was heavy handed on purpose. tell me where i'm wrong. practice with me, with us, where did i piss you off the most??

are you willing to share that???? let's think about it. talk about it. maybe there is a force to be reckoned with in that anger. i'm pushing buttons. i know there is a crack in the wall somewhere..........come on let me have it sunny!!!!! i'm safe b/c i'm on the internet and i really care about you and your future and your mental health. i don't judge or hate your husband. i see this as your process your path in life....these are your lessons so that is wwhy you chose him.....but what you do about this is your path....that's what i want to see unfold. your self compassion. it's what it's all about........

nothing you said made me angry or pissed me off.
none of it.
Its all true.

If I believed in God I would thank her for you every day Finn.
Im flapping around here trying this and that and floundering!
Reading books and gaining knowledge.
but not really getting anywhere…

THIS connected most to me:
;…"are you a super sensitive person?? have you always been?? was your family harsh? controlling? invalidating?? angry?? growing up.....do you have a life worth living?? do you ever feel suicidal? do you ever feel like you are going to explode or die from the intensity of your feelings?? like you're gonna lose it?? how can you make it?? ''

I feel like that very day.
I reach for the whiskey bottle every day but know its not the answer….I say to myself just a little to take the edge off…relax me a bit…but I know its a slippery slope. But I feel I want to….and need to.
Yes I feel suicidal.
Like this is just too hard and it hurts too much.
I don't know what to do with myself it hurts so much.
I want to go off and be alone….its tolerable then.
Somedays I hate every word which comes out of my mouth.

I don't feel able to make a sensible decision about my relationship at the moment.
So Im trying not to think about it. Yes I suppose it baffles me the things he does/says etc. I don't want bad feeling or an atmosphere or confrontation.
I keep up the facade but inside its different.

Some days I am crawling, begging and desperate.

I have just got that book on my Kindle.
loveyouFinn.
xxx

actually I don't know what you mean by having compassion for myself.
How do I do that?
x

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((jax))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

you are basically crippled by anxiety. we haven't been able to determine the source or the pattern yet. whether it's generalized anxiety, certainly sounds like panic disorder, or ptsd (acute or chronic) or due to personality traits. regardless.....the thing about anxiety is DOING the very thing you are afraid of. in manageable steps. that's what exposure is all about. manageable steps....if you go to fast you'll go back to avoidance which is the cornerstone of ptsd. we avoid like crazy!! and that leads to more anxiety.

and it becomes so scary we get sort of phobic like you described.

having compassion for yourself might be to take 15 or 10 or 5 or 30 minutes a day where you get out of the house by yourself and read your book. or go for a walk. doing something that feels gentle and safe. if you need time and space to yourself that would be a great place to start. take a bath and be off limits for 30 minutes a day. sometimes we have to force ourselves to do nice things for ourselves. start small. set yourself up for success and when you meet that small goal, come here and let us celebrate you.

and that is enough for today. or do one thing to honor yourself tomorrow. if you don't want to wear make up tomorrow don't do it. if you want to wear tennis shoes, wear them. if you want to take a nap, go take a nap. if you want a cup of coffee go get yourself a cup of coffee. take a cab. ask your husband for a ride to the mall. that may not sound good but go feed the swans somewhere. try a new recipe or a new restaurant. buy some new pajamas. do something special for yourself. just one little thing every day. ....start to make room in your life for yourself to have a need. to have an opinion. and then meet that need or voice that opinion. this can be really small for some of us. and if you have to force it force it.

please let me know what you think about that book complex ptsd from surviving to thriving. if you can relate to it. if not i have the wrong sense about what's going on for you and in that case i need to stop being so direct....i would die before i would want to cause you harm or mislead you in any way.

i found it very validating and i'm certain many many women here can relate to it........

as far as the suicidal feelings if you can put them on a scale from 0 feelings at all to 10 being have the means and the plan and are definitely going to kill yourself......and check in with us....

it's important to keep track of these feelings even if you don't feel like you will actually do it........they say the behaviors we track actually decrease over time.....

Dear Sunny,

Big hugs and sending you lots of compassion. It's okay if you are not able to make a decision about your relationship...I fully back your decision to just hold off for a while. That's ok. It just is so hard...because deep down you love him and care about him and you have had so many good memories. After all...you married him. That is the hardest part about these relationships is that there are so many good times and we do care deeply about them. It is an extremely difficult thing to have to go through...and no wonder you have the suicidal feelings. But please hang in there. Just give all this some time, do what you can, baby steps, to get better every day.

I'm really glad you have read 'Why Does He Do That' by Lundy Bancroft.

Finn, I know you are trying to help and you have some *great* advice (as always). But please be careful. I think you realized it a bit but...the one particular post just sounds a bit harsh and judgmental. I know this is just you trying to help and your intentions are all good at heart so I hope you won't mind me just pointing this out to you as a friend.

i don't mind at all. thank you in fact. i know i can be very direct. but harsh and judgmental is NOT my intention so that i don't want. i did mean to stoke the fire for you sunny to sort of see if you had any reactions to what i was saying and it is hard to watch you going through this knowing how badly you are feeling inside but i really don't judge you and i never want to seem harsh. so i apologize to you, sincerely i'm sorry and sad if you felt judged.....that is the last thing i want and the last thing you need right now....

so i will back off. ..

i also agree with going up about making decisions about your relationship right now. i tried to say the same thing....it's going to be harder for you i think but you can learn the art of self compassion while in your relationship.... with the levels of anxiety you have it is probably a better idea to wait anyway??

i really care about you all.....

i appreciate the feedback...

Hi Finn, don't worry about anything you say - I appreciate everything you say.
I am here to be judged and helped - thats the point isn't it!
I need others input and judgement on what I think, feel and do! I can't do that for myself!!!
(yet!)
I am about half way through the Cptsd book Finn, its spot-on with where I am and how I feel and have felt and behaved.
SO its a comforting and educational read!

always speak your mind everyone. I need it.

oh i'm so happy to hear you like the book and can relate to it. i think it could be a good suggestion for women here don't you sunny?? but it is as helpful as it is validating??

no you don 't need judgment in your life. you've had enough of that. i really see clearly now that we need gentleness and someone or some people to show us how to do that for ourselves. our inner and outer critic is judgment enough!!!!!!!!!!

i'm glad i didn't hurt you but it does sound like you felt judged. i'm here and i htihnk going up would agree that you don't deserve to feel judged. let's help each other stop judging ourselves....

i wanted to shake you up to see what you were willing to do...what action you were willing to take. you bought that book right away. so learning and seeking support seems like a great start...

is there a meet up network in europe?? maybe you could find an art group that meets once a week??maybe from there you could make one new female friend?? what about volunteering sunny?? that always helps me feel really good about myself!!!!! any little thing you could do for 4 hours a week or even once a month to start??? is there an art group for kids you could volunteer for or even start up??

what one thing, please state it here and try to keep your commitment to yourself, can you do that is good for you today?? however small? i posted a short list above for ideas. can you think of one small thing that you will today and then again tomorrow??

oxoxoxooxoxox