My opinion? God has a plan - you get x number of days on this planet. What you do with those days is entirely up to you. The people you chose to share yourself with, the career path(s) you take, etc....

How we chose to go on since our spouses deaths is up to us. We can grieve and continue to live and love, we can curl up in a ball and hide from the world, we can become bitter and nasty....

Personally, I have too much life left (I hope) to be negative, though I do have my moments/days. I am looking for the good and the love out there.

Just my opinion.

Mary

Wow! Those are good questions! Some, I have asked myself. I am not sure if there are answers to your questions asked. Personally, I believe that God helps those who help themselves. I do believe there is a plan out there, but it is up to us to make it, break it, or move it along. These are good questions to ask the head of your church. I'd be interested in the answers as well.

This is a very thought-filled post. This subject is on my mind as well. Plus probably the philosophers who have been debating on it for centuries, lol. I don't have the answers. I know I have free will - there have been many times in my life where I took the left path instead of the right...that kind of thing. Was it wrong or right? Why call it either? It was a choice - my choice. Neither negative or positive, just my choice. I try, really try, to be mindful of my actions now. G-d may have a plan, but if He/She does, I'm certainly not privy to it! Marsha

Mathew,
Right, this is complicated. If you like I would refer you to a reposted journal entry I just made. Go to my profile and check the journal entry. I'm curious as to your take on it. It may or may not help explain your question. Also read the addendum at the bottom as the essay itself was written many years ago.

Best Regards, George

First let me say...... I am sorry for your loss.
Next, there is no such phrase in the bible "God helps those who help themselves," God gives us a choice in everything. Just pray for direction & guidance . There is no way to know what course to be on, just do what is right. Think....... what would Jesus do?
This may be a long process, don't rush. Think before you do anything. Nothing is set in stone, take your time, it will all fall into place when your ready.

Hello Matthew 90,
My opinion, as little as it means, Is that God does have a plan for us. I do not know to what extent that we may play in it though. I met my wife at 15, we both fell in love within hours, married at 17 and lived in total bliss until God called her home Nov.10,2013. We were told by so many people that God made each of us for one another and I believe that. The age, the timing, everything about my wife and I was a Godsend. I truly believe that God put her here for me! It was to perfect to just be fate. I still question why he took her though. Sorry I can't be of more help. Lee

Your post presented so many good questions. I do believe God has a plan but like Marsha mentioned free will also comes into play. How the two blend together I dont know. I often tell myself the reason I am still here is God still has a purpose for me. The rebuilding process I post about involves trying to figure out what that purpose is. Thank you for such a thoughtful post. Gerald

I recently read a book called " Embraced by the Light" by Betty Eadie. I have struggled as you in asking why was my wife taken and I am still here. My wife Donna passed 2 weeks short of our 40th anniversary. I have read probably 20+ books on death and near death experiences and the book I mention here is probably the one that has given me the most information and hope of them all. I know from you post you are a religious soul but some have problems with near death experiences etc. in the past 17 months that my wife has been gone I believe it more than ever. I believe some of us have been given glimpses of heaven to help others of us that have the need to just know our loved ones are ok and are waiting on us. I won't spoil the book but in it she says we all plan our births, relationships, and deaths.

It's an easy read and I read it in one afternoon. If you are so inclined it may bring some comfort and peace as it did for me.

Blessings,

Jeff.

This is an old religious question and I believe that the answer is called the 'Free Will Defence' for the existence of God.

The argument goes something like this:

If there is an all powerful God, why does he allow bad things to happen to good people?

The free will defence says 'God is all powerful, but allows man free will to make his own moral choices. In that way each man can choose to make his own choices to accept to walk in the path of god's guidance or not. A lot of bad things can happen to innocent people because of bad choices made by another person.

So it's Gods way of allowing his servants to show their spiritual development.

That is pretty much the way that argument goes, if I remember from college.

So if you accept that man has free will, then it's up to each of us to make the best moral choices that we can. We can choose to be more patient and more fair if we choose to. It's not set in some script as you say.

Bob

Oh, and I guess I might add that the only things that matter in this existence are our moral choices. There is no winning life :).

The purpose is to develop your spiritual attributes by making better moral choices. Of course if you don't believe in God you will have to come up with something else :)

Bob

In your post, you asked "How proactive does God want us to be in affecting our own futures?"

My response is going to sound like a cop-out, but I think the expected proactivity is on a sliding scale. Some days we're able to accomplish a great degree of self-management; other days, not so much. As Bob said, all we can do is try to make what we deem the best moral choices. And yes, that means we must do the work ourselves.

By the way ... the expression "God helps those who help themselves" is not the only one absent from the Bible. Another popular expression that is nowhere in the good book is this one: "God doesn't give us any more than we can handle." Oh yes, He does!! And the reason He does so is so that we will continue to turn to Him and lean on Him when things get too much for us to handle alone.

Sorry to be so long-winded ... I guess your question gave me an opportunity to get some things off my chest ... and I thank you for that!

These are great questions and following is my opinion along with a couple scripture references.

I believe that God loves us and has a plan for us. Jeremiah 29:11 tell us this. A lot of people know this verse but I do not think as many read the following verses. I know I didn't for a long time.

12 Then you will call on me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. 13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. 14 I will be found by you, declares the Lord, and will bring you back from captivity.[b] I will gather you from all the nations and places where I have banished you, declares the Lord, and will bring you back to the place from which I carried you into exile.

For me, this tells me he will help bring me out of the pit that I am in as a result of losing my husband. But that is just me.

Someone stated that there is no verse in the Bible that says God will never give us more than we can handle. The verse that people use for this is 1 Corinthians 10:13...it is about temptation but has ended up being used for everything. On a lighter note on this one...Mother Teresa used to saw that she knew God would not give her more than she can handle...she just wished he didn't trust her so much. :-)

I believe God helps those who helps themselves but I also don't think that God wants us to take it too far where we think we don't need Him. He wants to trust Him and to reply on Him. At least that is what I think.

The question about how do we know if are doing what God wants us to do....that is an awesome question and one I ask daily. I do not know that there is 100% certain way for us to know. But for me, I pray about things and ask for His guidance. I try to see if I feel peace about whatever it is and I use that as my guide. One thing I pray for is for God to close the doors he doesn't want me to go through.

In regard to free will...God gives us free will to make our own decisions...He didn't want Robots following Him. So we have the ability to make our own choices. One of those choices is to believe in God another is to accept His son, Jesus as our Savior and yet another is to read the Bible for help in knowing God's will. I believe (and I am not always good at doing this myself) that when we spend time with God...reading His word and praying that we grow into a closer relationship with Him and that helps us in knowing what He wants us to do.

I am sorry to ramble on..my faith is the only thing that has gotten me through the past 8 months and when given the opportunity, I love to share my faith. I do not do so in an effort to push my beliefs on anyone else or offend anyone else...but this time questions were asked and I am glad to have the opportunity to share.

One last verse I cling to...it is from Revelations. chapter 21: vs 4

He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death' or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.

One day I will be called home to heaven. I will get to meet God and I WILL see my husband again. What a glorious day that will be.

God bless.

Robert, this is one of those things that you will get a variety of opinions on, and eventually you alone will have to decide what makes sense to you. I will throw my two cents worth in, too, if you don't mind.....

First, the comments from people you know that God has a plan, or her death was part of God's plan, are not saying that as a great theological statement. It's one of those inane comments people make to the bereaved. It's right up there with, "You're young, you'll find someone else," or "God needed her more than you, " or whatever. It is not a statement that helps you. Oh, and like Bandi, "God will never give you more than you can handle, " is one of my least favorite comments. These are all cop-out statements people make thinking that either (a) it will comfort you and then they won't have to, or (b) they think it's the appropriate thing to do - they are cliches. Both wrong. I just wanted to get that aspect of it straight before commenting on the belief side of your questions. That's the people side of it....

As for belief regarding free will versus fate: The origin of "fate" is from ancient Greek mythology. There were 3 goddesses called the Fates. When a person was to be born, the first sister spun the person's thread of life; the second sister measured it; and the third cut it for the appointed death time. Because the Fates had determined how long you would live, under that belief you couldn't alter your predestined length of lifetime. I give you that as a lesson in why "fate" should not be considered so seriously - unless you are a follower of the ancient Greeks! :)

We are God's children, not his puppets. The way I think of the boundaries of what God does and how free will fits into that is this: God's creation is like a house He has built for us. He has given us the space to move around in and do whatever we are going to do. There are windows that depending on which one you stand at you will get a different view. Different doors you can choose to open and enter or leave closed. Within the house, you can make choices - you have free will. However, there is a limit; it is still God's house. If you make stupid choices, there is damage. If someone else in the house makes stupid choices, you may feel some of their damage. Part of living pleasantly is learning how to help the other residents in the house. There are limitations, but there are possibilities even within the limitations. God has provided the structure. He is not absent, but he expects you to be a good caretaker of what He has built.

How proactive should we be? I have always loved this saying from the Arabs, "Trust in God, but tie your camel." In other words, God is there, but you should take care of what you can take care of. Don't expect God to micro-manage your life for you. It doesn't mean that God will never intervene; it does mean that you have to take responsibility.

I think that you and I have some additional questions that our compatriots here might not have, because of our sons. My sons are living proof that the standard, simplistic, pat answers some folks throw out about life's big questions are BS. If there are "reasons" behind some of these things, the "why" of it all, they are not contained in the standard, run-of-the-mill answers you will get, including in all likelihood from your pastor/priest/people you know and trust. I know that sounds harsh, and some of my DS friends will disagree with me on this, but raising a disabled child entails an entirely other set of life questions that you cannot comprehend if you have not wrestled with them.

Before I get off my soapbox..... How do you know if it's the right course? You don't. You have to take some chances. You start with the best information and guidance you can, and take if from there. Rules of thumb you can use: the Golden Rule is present in every major religion in some form, that's a good start. The Ten Commandments are more or less in every nation's laws just not in so many words, so those come in handy, too. And surprise surprise, the vast majority of atheists have the same morals as everyone else. Why? Because we're all people, and those are the rules people need regardless of whether they believe or not.

I pray for guidance. I don't know whether I am getting it or not. But I put the effort out there, and it helps me. And I agree with you - every day has the potential to improve our lives.

I hope this helps, and I hope I have not offended anyone. These are just my personal thoughts based on my own investigations and experiences.

Love and Hugs,
Martha

It seems I'm not the only one trusting God and yelling at Him at the same time. I know God's help and my choices will affect the rest of my future. However, I haven't reached that point yet as I'm still also questioning, what's the point now. I don't think I'm ready to give up the argument of why God changed His plan. My husband was an ordained pastor, sold out to God, faithful servant, husband, father. We (I) believed we were following God's will, and guidance in our lives. Not perfect lives, nor perfect couple, but living for God. So until I resolve, what was I doing wrong that He has a 'better' purpose for me now than what I had, I'll keep striving for better days and trusting Him.
Blessings, Doreen

Robert, that mystery of life, and God's proactive and reactive state in it has been around a long time. But I like many, know there is a lot of free will involved. A test is easy, but painful.

Take a hammer and aim and swing it at your thumb, was it stopped?
No. God leaves a lot to our discretion to learn on our own. That's the free will part.

But all seem to have the basic truths of the Golden rule and the commandments in some form. Some stories even have a similar timeline of events, though happening in unconnected , undiscovered areas of the world.

To be truthful I would choose to err on the side, of do the best you ca, but do no harm to others.

Hugs, deep for a Sunday discussion.
J