Hi, we are kind of corresponding through the posts here and I think it's wonderful.
" If I just be good enough, he will stay. ". So it has to do with absent daddy figure in my life.
I confused a lot of the things he did to lure me in , including sex with love.And I desperately wanted love.

I personally feel is is always very wrong to talk about the victim's "pathology" both very wrong and very incorrect. I, for one, was alone 10 years before meeting XP. didn't date by choice, was very independent.

This article by Peace says it best:

https://www.psychopathfree.com/content.php?313-Codependency-Victim-Blaming-Why-Abuse-Is-Always-Wrong

If you're researching psychopathy, sociopathy, and narcissism, chances are, you've also come across this term called codependency. So what exactly is codependency? From Mental Health America:

An exaggerated sense of responsibility for the actions of others
A tendency to confuse love and pity, with the tendency to “love” people they can pity and rescue
A tendency to do more than their share, all of the time
A tendency to become hurt when people don’t recognize their efforts
An unhealthy dependence on relationships. The co-dependent will do anything to hold on to a relationship; to avoid the feeling of abandonment
An extreme need for approval and recognition
A sense of guilt when asserting themselves
A compelling need to control others
Lack of trust in self and/or others
Fear of being abandoned or alone

Whether you're currently in the midst of an abusive relationship or just getting out of one, most of these things probably sound very familiar. So the natural course of thinking is that you might be codependent, and that's why you ended up in this bad relationship to begin with.

First things first. There is nothing "evil" or "pathological" about being codependent. These are learned behaviors that can be unlearned. Whether it came from a toxic family situation or a string of bad relationships, there shouldn't be any stigma around codependency. If you've exhibited patterns of these behaviors in the past, there are a million resources out there to help with building boundaries, self-esteem, and independence.

But if you're exhibiting these behaviors after one bad relationship, I would strongly urge you to refrain from labeling yourself (or allowing someone else to label you) codependent. Psychopaths manufacture desperation, desire, jealousy, dependence, addiction, and anxiety. It's what they do. So if you're feeling those things after a relationship with a psychopath, that was the intended result.

It's sort of like diagnosing yourself with clinical depression after the death of a loved one. Yes, your depression is very real and probably meets all of the symptoms of clinical depression, but it's also a universal part of the grieving process—an anomaly. I hope that survivors of psychopathic abuse also take the time to work through their own unique stages of grief, before making any sweeping decisions about their mental health.

And here's the bottom line that @Indie917, @Outoftheashes, and @SearchingForSunshine all articulated so well in our discussions about this topic: regardless of whether you're codependent, insecure, naive, vulnerable, or a perfectly healthy human being, abuse and exploitation are always wrong. Nobody deserves to be abused. Abusers toss around the word "codependency" because it unloads all of the blame onto their victim. But being codependent does not somehow make the abuse more acceptable, just like leaving your car unlocked does not mean you deserve to have your car stolen.

Victim blamers love to scream about how you'll never recover, grow, and heal if you don't "accept the blame" for your role in the dynamic (because it takes two to tango and blah blah blah). But here's a neat concept: it's perfectly possible to recover, grow, and heal without accepting the blame for someone else's horrendous behavior. That's how we build self-respect and boundaries. That's how we learn to stop absorbing someone else's projection, excuses, and minimization of abuse.

We all come from unique pasts, relationships, and experiences. In that respect, our recovery processes will also be unique. So if you see someone else introspecting about codependency, that doesn't automatically mean you're codependent. Likewise, someone with codependency need not look at someone with a healthy past and feel hopeless about their own recovery. It is never too late or too early to make big changes.

What I'm trying to say is that despite our differences, we're all working together towards the same goal here.

I'm talking about personality characteristics. I like to be self aware which aids me in the future to be more aware of the person I am. It's called self actualization. I'm sorry if I offended you Kris. I said or insinuated that abuse of any kind is ok.

I didn't mean to jump on you, lovechild. It's a hot button for me--the pathologizing of psychopath's victims. I didn't even looks to see who wrote the post. Some P victims MAY be co-sependent, but, in my POV that is a random event. I believe it is just as likely that P victims are very psychologically healthy until the P gets hold of them.

Lianne Leedom was a highly successful doctor who married a psychopathic child molester she met on a dating site. He embedded himself in her practice, working in her office and molested her patients. Sh lost her license to practice. I am not sure if she got it back. To suggest there is something wrong with the victim, it just upsets me. like we aren't suffering enough.

http://parentingtheatriskchild.com/author.html

If you think it helps you. by all means, look into it. I just don't want to see all P victims thinking, "What is wrong with me that this happened to me?"

I think this is a really good topic as this is where I'm at in my journey right now. After many years of reading about their issues, I've finally turned the attention to my own and discovered some pretty major things recently.

For many years I'd read about Cluster B disorders (really just NPD and APD) but hadn't read about any of the other PDs. ...until I met this recent guy. At first I was quick to label him another psychopath as some red flags popped up rather early. But as I continued, I saw there were very different traits in him. I read about one topic and another until I came upon Avoidant PD which seemed to almost describe him perfect. As I read more I was convinced I had AvPD, even did an MMPI with my psych (which came up with high social avoidance).

At one point I was worried I had borderline as I have an extreme fear of abandonment (but this is also accounted for with C-PTSD).

Recently, on another site, I read a post about OCPD. I have no idea why I've never read about it before but it described the guy I've been seeing PERFECTLY. Then I realized it also described my dad PERFECTLY. Then I realized it also described me PERFECTLY. I've spent the past week reading everything I can find and noticing how all these things fit into my lifetime of behaviors. It's truly astonishing. I now have a huge list of traits that I've exhibited my entire life, that fit in to OCPD perfectly. I'm seeing my psychologist on Fri to talk about it.

I've learned, in the past few months, that PDs are extremely hard to distinguish from one another if you do not have extensive knowledge of ALL of them. One can very much look like another. Someone can seem cold and distant but it doesn't mean they lack empathy, it could be that they are repressing emotions, it could be that they are so afraid of vulnerability that they don't want to show emotions, it could be that they've been hurt so bad, they are afraid to be open again, it could be that they are afraid anything they give out will be used against them, or that they'll be rejected, or that they are just so overwhelmed that they have no idea how to respond (especially men, men are raised not to express emotion and have a hard time learning this in adulthood).

There are so many overlapping PD traits from one PD to another where the behavior is the same, for example: social avoidance, but the REASON is completely different. This is key to differentiating between PDs. If you don't know that reason, it's hard to say which PD they have. Someone could avoid intimacy because they have no desire (Schizoid PD), or because they are afraid of rejection (Avoidant PD), or because they are afraid to lose control of their emotions (OCPD), or because they are afraid info will be used against them (Paranoid PD). You really have to spend a lot of time studying PDs, and a lot of time with the person in question to figure it out.

And because I'm fairly certain I have OCPD, I literally spend over 10 hrs a day researching PDs, every single day, obsessively...

I think at different times of my life I've probably had traits of most PD's to be honest. I just don't think I've been "full blown". Going through grad school I thought I had everything as I learned about each disorder. I think I'm avoidant because although I'm an extrovert, I tend to only get in relationships where I'm "sure" to be accepted or liked. That bode well for the SP because the love bombing made me feel very safe and adored. I think I'm thinking in terms of what my issues are that kept me in the relationship. Obviously I denied my gut and instincts. I kept thinking any "normal" person would have walked away a long time ago. For example the love bombing was over the top - made me suspicious. Why didn't I use my brain versus heart more? Abandonment issues? Who does not or has not had abandonment fears in life. Maybe at a particular time; not necessarily all consuming all the time. Everything is relative.
Was I psychologically healthy at the start of the SP relationship? Sure, but again relative. I believe pathology is more prevalent in society than normality. Normal is and was designed by people that didn't take into account trauma, childhood issues etc. I think pathology is so prevalent that it is essentially what is normal. However it's a continuum and the severity of pathology is what makes is a full blown disorder. We are human and depend on one another for survival. Hence we are all codependent to some extent.

It isn't considered pathology when one's traits fall within normal range. Normal" could simply be interpreted as the traits not running a person's life. Certainly, everyone has traits that are not healthy. That makes EVERYONE prey to S/N/P. That does not mean that anyone was targetted by S/N/P because of personality traits. In fact, the only documented personality trait a P is known to be attracted to is an extreme empath.

http://www.addictiontoday.org/addictiontoday/2013/10/empathy-trap-sociopath-triangle.html

A person who feels for the other person strongly and regularly is easier for S/XNP to manipulate. And a person who feels deeply is more fun for them to torture. I recall several times my XP bursting into insane peals of laughter when he had hurt me especially deeply, and the pain came into my eyes.

I was with 2 P's. I have written about the first one doing the exact same thing almost 40 years ago.

Empathy is not pathological. PD traits are not pathological unless they form a configuration and are of a number which is constant within a personality and hinders that person's life in some way, not just when in relationship with a psychopath, but ALL the time.

What Kris said. It has to be a "pervasive pattern" and cause significant impairment in your life to be considered a PD. Even if you meet all criteria for a PD, if you don't exhibit it to extremes where it's inhibiting you, it's not a PD. In the guy I've dated's case, he has lost all relationships because of his inability to communicate at even a bare minimal level. I could have better conversations with a random stranger passing by. His "demand resistance" (an ocpd trait) is so extreme that he'll resist doing literally anything I ask because he can't handle demands or expectations being put upon him. Even if it's something he also wants, like sex. He becomes paralyzed and can't answer the simplest of questions. His is a very extreme case though.

AgentSmith, thanks. PD's are extreme. They are actually hard to miss after a few weeks of spending alot of time with someone. Unfortunately, they can be misconstrued as less toxic (and more treatable) mental illnesses, primarily bi-polar disrder. P's and borderlines, especially appear similar to people with bi-polar disorder, early on.

Also, only the Cluster B PD's are really malignant. The other axes are impaired, often in a way that makes relationships difficult for them, but they do not have the intention or impulse towards hurting others, like the Cluster B's, at least as far as I understand it.

I would be more comfortable with a discussion of the possible neuroses of SNP victims. To suggest that we (generally) have pathology is both incorrect, and potentially misleading. Some of us may. Most of us don't. Just like the general population.

SNP victims are not, typically pathological due to being SNP victims.

I am not sure how this became an education on personality disorders. I'm a therapist and I teach abnormal psychology in a college.

Let me correct my above statement. we actually often become pathological due to being SNP victims, and most often we suffer PTSD. We may exhibit symptoms similar to those of our abuser during periods of intense PTSD. But we have these symptoms as a result of our abuse. We did not have these traits before engagement with the SNP, and they are not the reason we were targetted by him.

I was just sharing what I've been learning. I'm open to learn more.

O.ne can have pathology in all areas, not just PD. Could be in jealousy, orderliness, lying etc. Pathology does not necessarily indicate a mental illness

lovechild, I was with my first P for 30 years, beginning right after my 19th birthday. I'd had a sociopathic mother. But honestly, I think the primary problem was not knowing what was wrong. I followed a spiritual path in life, inwardly motivated--not following a certain religion, but a prayer path. The concept of forgiveness held me up for years.

I lost my health at age 32 to an auto-immune disorder. I had been preparing to leave at the time. I had 2 children. Though my XH, barely worked, it became harder to find my way out. 2 parents, even with one doing very little, is easier, or so it seemed, at the time.

A huge detriment was that there was basically no information for laypeople about psychopathy until the 1993 publication of Dr. Robert hare's book "Without Conscience." I started to find my way out in 1998, found the book, and finally left in 2001. I was 49 and disabled. I can't tell you how hard it was to make that choice as I stood to become homeless before becoming eligible for disability assistance.

For me, my becoming free of the first P had absolutely nothing to do with mental health issues, although I certainly did have PTSD by the time I got out.

I got better. I worked part-time for 4 years. I didn't date for 10 years.

The second P is an Internet catfish and the most clever, evil, diabolical P I could ever imagine. He sucked me in. It took me 3 years to get out of that one.

He is still holding my furniture hostage. He wrote me last night that he loves me forever. This is after year of NC. They use whatever power they can. They attack vulnerability.

I agree we all have issues they exploit.

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but jealousy and orderliness is not "pathology."

pa·thol·o·gy
pTHälj/Submit
noun
the science of the causes and effects of diseases, especially the branch of medicine that deals with the laboratory examination of samples of body tissue for diagnostic or forensic purposes.
MEDICINE
pathological features considered collectively; the typical behavior of a disease.
"the pathology of Huntington's disease"
MEDICINE
a pathological condition.
"the dominant pathology is multiple sclerosis"