I thought in order to be a sociopath one is at the core a narcissist? Now Im confused.

Honestly, I prefer the way Vatkin tells about sociopathy or narcissism. I like that he is without emotion only because I want the facts, without any emotional prejudices. Great, now maybe Im a sociopath ;)

Just to clear that up, WithC, No you're not a sociopath.

This is #2 on Hare's Psychopathic Checklist: Grandiose sense of self-worth
I would think that would qualify as narcissism. It would seem to me that psychopaths are, by definition, narcissists.

I don't know what that odd affect of Vaknin's can be attributed to. It seems like "remove." Maybe that is there because is talking about himself.

I have started to think that sociopaths are like puppets of demons. Maybe because I am reading a lot of scripture lately. But it seems like they are puppets to a demonic power. Maybe that is why they often pull off the whole victim role so successfully. Just a thought that this video provoked.

Thanks for the clarification Kris ;)

I have always seen sociopathy/psychopathy as evil. I come from a background of spiritual searching. I have read much of the Bible, studied Buddhism, spent years in an Anthroposophical community, studying the works of clairoyant theosophist, Rudolf Steiner, spent 2 years studying "A Course in Miracles." So, when the dawning of awareness came that my husband was a psychopath and I began to study psychopathy about 15-20 years ago, I always viewed this condition from a spiritual perspective.

If I remember correctly, at that time, even the DSM-IV made a point of saying something to the effect that psychopathy was not a true mental illness. It was a character disorder, and (did they say?) a problem of a spiritual nature..This is from memory.

I wrote a book about my life with my husband which did not get published. Publishers were concerned about liability. But the book was read by Roy Hazelwood, former FBI psychopath profiler, and he confirmed my husband was a psychopath. Alot of the book deals with the spiritual nature of psychopathy.

I also wrote online. At that time, there were no forums on the subject. I wrote on a crime site rather copiously. About a year ago, as I was awakening to the fact that I was living with another psychopath, I did some Internet research and discovered my own writings out there! I have not been able to find them here lately, but when I do, I will post some of them here as they deal with the spiritual nature of psychopathy.

Eyes - When I read the part about anger it made me remember the times where my S would provoke me to anger. I know that sounds very immature to say, but he honestly provoked me to anger. I knew better then to give him a reaction but against all I knew I would say something back horrible, to which he would smile. His smile was one of great satisfication. Like, "ah ha, I knew you an angry miserable person" or something like that. He was so gratified knowing I acted in an unkind way. Just wanted to throw that out there after reading how they like these types of living conditions...

I don't know what I think of this, but it is certainly an interesting idea:


http://www.bethelministries.com/psychopaths.htm

"It is important to understand that narcissists, sociopaths and psychopaths (monobeings) are all the same creatures, contrary to popular misconceptions by most psychotherapists. Some are more narcissistic than others and some are more aggressive than others. All of them are born without a conscience and without a soul or spirit, and cannot be cured. Psychopathy is not the same as psychosis. Psychopaths (monobeings) are not psychotic, and "psychopathy," as commonly used, in reality is not a mental disease or a personality disorder. They all are very dangerous nonhuman predators of humans. This is one of the world's most profound, but little-known truths.

Also, it is very important to understand that the term 'psychopath' is perhaps the world's greatest misnomer. The word that I use to better describe the misnomer 'psychopath,' is monobeing. The terms 'psychopath' and 'psychopathy' mean "mind disease." However, generally, monobeings do not have a mind disease or mental disorder or personality disorder. They are creatures created by God that consist only of a body without a conscience or soul or spirit. Also, the brain of a monobeing does not function the same as the brain of a human being, which can be proven with an MRI and other diagnostic means.

A human being is a triune being consisting of body, soul and spirit created in the image of our triune God --- Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Triune means 'three in one.' Mono means 'one." A monobeing consists only of a body. There is no spiritual aspect to a monobeing.

God's Word says in 2 Timothy 3:13 that in the last days "evil men AND imposters will proceed from bad to worse." The Greek word for "imposter" is the only place in the Bible where this word is used. God calls monobeings "imposters" and "beasts." He does NOT call monobeings "evil men." Monobeings are imposters that pretend to be humans. The soon-coming "beast" (Antichrist), will be the greatest imposter that has ever lived on this planet.


Only one in 30,000 monobeings are serial killers. The Hollywood depiction of psychopaths is, in part, a distraction from the real dangers concerning the typical monobeing that is not a serial killer, but is extremely dangerous.

There are more than 15,000,000 monobeings in the United States and about 100,000,000 worldwide. The percentage and the total number of monobeings is increasing.

Many monobeings "target" true Christians because Christians are generally more empathic and easier to manipulate and control by an experienced monobeing.

If you are an empathic Christian living in America (where the percentage of monobeings is higher than most countries), you have been or are now or probably will be, unknowingly, in a close relationship with one or more monobeings. Most likely, you will know that you have been emotionally and physically drained, confused and even devastated---but you will not understand why. I suggest that you carefully read this entire article."

Nice article and along the lines I have been thinking. Thank you for sharing it.

When thinking about a sociopath I think about Satan. Why is he the way he is? He knows of God's power, I mean he KNOWS first hand. So doesnt it seem futile to oppose it? Probably way off topic here but I'd love to hear anyone's response.

I don't think the psychopath has that level of awareness anymore. I think he has lost it through a choice that he made possibly before this life. Using Christian imagery as a metaphor to describe the human spiritual journey, the story of the temptation of Christ is a good example of how one could make the wrong spiritual choice. On Jesus' road to perfection, the devil came to him and offered him the world. Jesus said no and told Satan to get behind him. We all face smaller choices like that every day. Take the promotion even though you know the company is buying your soul or look for a job making half as much money?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temptation_of_Christ

Maybe one loses their soul through a series of wrong choices. But I would think the psychopath would be one who had reached a high level of perfection at one time (why else would Satan be interested?) thus, has or had a high level of spiritual knowledge. Satan needs to recruit those people. Satan doesn't know he can'r win against God. He's narcissist. He thinks he's all-powerful.

Through this wrong choice,the psychopath joined Satan's army. This is a theory of mine. I believe in reincarnation, so this is a conceivable scenario for me.

I have lived with 2 psychopaths while in a state of spiritual searching. Once I realized that each of these men were shams (gradual realizations, still in process with the second one), I observed them with this sort of question in mind, and I questioned them. My observation, from these 2, was that the psychopath has knowledge of evil and even superhuman powers, but he has a scorn for God. My ex P husband had a Master of Divinity degree which he never used, but he could not hold an intelligent conversation about spiritual matters. Yet his ability to maneuver me into intricate plots of sabotage and destruction was beyond anything a mere human could have managed. I believed he worshiped and adored evil, lived the power it gave him, and served it with all his heart. I feel this about the recent P, too, but this one is openly derisive of spiritual matters and scornful of God, For some dumb reason, I never really believed him. I thought it was old childhood resentments being expressed.

One could take my theory a little further and suggest that the purpose of psychopaths in this life is to defeat Good or God. Nothing like perverting love for turning a good person into a hateful, foul-mouthed bilious troll. (So I became with both of my tormentors) Not entirely, of course. But wouldn't they love to defeat our humanity? One by one, they hope to win us over to their side. Possibly.

Oh, I forgot, the reason they are scornful of God (good or love) is jealousy. They are also jealous of us who are capable of these things. They are jealous of the drop of God in us that our soul. When they made their bargain with the devil. they had to relinquish these things, relinquish that which made them human, and they are bitter about the deal. They can see that we have something precious that they do not and cannot have and they want to take it from us, strip it from us, so that we don't have it, either.

My ex-husband was able to express this to me in the the end. He said he hated me for having goodness in me that he had not believed existed, and my irritating goodness was a constant reminder to him of what he didn't have.

Kris, I am going to read all this carefully. But one thing I wanted to mention is I believe that they are here as tools to bring those who accept the gift to a higher level. Kind of like using evil for the greater good of those who believe. Try as they may to defeat us, it only makes us stronger (in a simplistic terms).

If you think about you before your S, can you say that you would have been more awakened without the chaos he brought? For me, my S was a necessary evil...

Well, you express a mystical truth there about good and evil, WithC. In some quarters, it is considered backward (Course in Miracles, for example) to speak of evil as something negative or even as something real. I can't say I am better for this recent experience right now because, at this moment, I am not. But hopefully, the strength I gain in pulling myself out of this hole can be used for good.

I gained insight and strength 12 years ago from the first P, Of that, I am sure.

It is certainly true of me, Eyes. Initially, I was totally embarrassed to be back in this position. It would have been even worse if my book had sold and I had built a career on being psychopath-savvy, and then married one lol!

But you are right, we all have to repeat lessons sometimes.

every sociopath is a narcissist but not every narcissist is a sociopath.

That is my understanding too, bella.