Oops I meant to say that he says most women he meets around his age either already have kids of their own or have already decided they don't want kids....I forgot to finish that sentence.

Anyone?

wternity,

It sets off alarms for me. I feel he is pushing the relationship to a level where it should be so soon, and also the forgetting of details is sdisturbing--that he does it so much. My ex P boyfriend continued to do this a year into our relationship. It was because he was a catfsih and routinely juggled 10-12 women at all times, in addition ot having a "girlfriend" always. Whenever I expereince that, especially combined with the pushing to a committed level--well, those 2 things should be seen in the same picture. If he is thinking only of you, he will remember the things you tell him.

I recently cut off a promising new communication. I will tell you what my red flags were. I am not sure if you will be able to use any of them to test him. 1. He routinely failed to answer simple questions, such as where he went to college, instead, promising ot answer that in the next, then the next, then the next, e-mail, making it into a game. 2. He spoke of himself in the third person often, saying, "You asked why D has a whip...D has a whip because his favorite TV character as a kid was Zorro..." 3. He spoke in flowery language, saying "Good evening," and "My Dear Lady," 4. He consistently said he was going to "write more tonight" or "tomorrow" or would talke to me "this evening," and consistently did not do so, 5. He said he had 2 FB accounts but didn't use either and didn't send me a link to wither. Psychopaths routinely hide their FB accounts form their various women, or do have one at all, or have several, and are constantly de-activating them, or claiming their FB account is effed up. and 6. He answered my questions often by proposing I solve a riddle. P's speak in riddles. and the absolute kidck out the door: 7. He answered his won proposed riddle of how D could ahve been married 3 times and have 2 exes by explaining that his second wife died due to complications of childbirth, and therefore didn't count as an ex. He added a tasteless joke that she had fulfilled her bargain of "till death do us part."

I don't see how you could use any of that to test him. Maybe by asking a personal question and seeing if he answers with feeling, taste, and respectfulness.

I don't have a good feeling about yours either.

I would drop him myself. Trust your gut.

Yeah, I'm seeing red flags.

1. Anytime a man mentions marriage anywhere near the beginning of a relationship, just run. ALL my psychopaths and narcissists have done this. The only thing that should be discussed, regarding marriage, this early on is whether it's something you're eventually wanting or not. Period. When you first meet you should see if you match up on things like wanting marriage, kids, etc. But that's it. Talking about GETTING married, NO.

2. It's been a month and he has your number but I'm assuming has not called since you mention never talking on the phone? I think a real man calls. When the majority of communication is done with texting/emails, red flag. That's what avoidants do. As I've learned from my last experience.

3. He's 40 and has never been married. Why? Has he ever been in a long-term, live-in relationship? I think the older someone gets without ever having been married is a potential red flag.

But the marriage thing, that's a HUGE red flag. HUGE. That's one of the reasons I liked the commitment phobe, he said up front that he's not looking to rush into marriage. Whew. lol

I have a question to Kris 7167...

Are those red flags, the flowery language and talking about oneself in third person? Are these common traits of a sociopath? My husband talks about himself in third-person all the time. He calls himself the poor latino. So he refers to himself this way all the time. The poor latino had to do this today...or the poor latino is always being exploited by the Americans, weird stuff he says.

Also eternity75 mentioned that they seem like they don't pay attention to what you say. Is this also common? With my own sociopath who I have been married to for 9 years, and the divorce will be final any day (hurray but holding my breath), for the longest time I thought he had ADHD. That was how I rationalized all the times he couldn't remember the plans we made together, or how careless he was with my things, losing things that were important to me, or breaking things that were important to me. He would even steal from me and then when I caught him say he forgot he borrowed it.

My husband also pushed me into marriage right away and asked for a baby right away. i did not want to have a baby (I was 41), He literally guilted me over and over...if you loved me you would do this for me. I finally had hi baby and then realized we were being used so that he could get his citizenship which he was having a hard time getting because he had a felony in his past. I was basically used. Then when the baby was born, he pretty much abandoned us. And then after me raising the baby on my own emotionally (he did support us) he tried to take the boy away. I have really had to fight hard throughout my divorce. I got a lawyer who has experience w/ sociopaths, but she has cost me 9,500.00 so far. This is a lot of money for me. But in the end I know it will be worth it.

Eternity75, I also get a bad feeling, actually a really bad feeling.

antares,

My guy is back, asking for, at the least, a "fuck you and good-by" from me. I agree I owe him at least that. We both put a ton of hours into the e-mails for several weeks. Perhaps I was thinking too poorly of him to think he would just disappear. It's an "occupational" hazard. More a relational hazard of having been involved with a socio/psychopath. Maybe I was too hard in my assessment of eternity's guy, too. but he does give me a bad feeling, as he, apparently, does others here.

antares, Maybe the flowery language has to do with a man/ woman who speaks another language. My guy is also Hispanic. In this case, though I believe his first language is English (he was born here and has one Anglo parent). I have always been turned off by flowery language, unless 2 people are kdding around. I mean--who actually talks like that? And that is always a red flag--when someone isn't being genuine. If your husband's first language is not English, that leaves this one hard to judge.

The third person POV: that can be humorous, too, so you can't just say someone is a narcissist because of using it--with limited communication. Some of the funniest stories I've ever heard were told by the protagonist in the third person, i.e., "So there's Jane standing in the ocean while her bikini drifts off to sea, and her 'f'uture husband' whom she has only just met sits on the shore." However, third person speech does create a separate character from the narrator or speaker. Why does someone do that on a regular basis? Are they enamored of the funny, irrascilble character of whom they speak? Delighted? Entertained? Pitying? Narcissism.

I think you are on the right path with your husband, antares. Oh, and I relate to the suspicion about ADHD. It's one of the primary smoke screens employed by sociopaths. They expect to get pity for that, along with forgiveness, as they steal the shirt off your back.

I am glad you have a good lawyer, and I hope this mightmare will soon be over for you and your child, antares.

Hugs.

My soc proposed marriage less than 2 months of dating. Over and over by text....marry me, marry me.....we got a marriage license which i paid for.........a couple months later the discard began.....but he wouldnt go away and kept texting me. I peeked at his new online dating profile, mostly out of curiosity and for a "scientific" reason to understand more the nature of the beast....he said he is "looking for someone to marry". He is not......it's just that if he pretends this with a new lady she likely will be more attached and loyal to him. It is a game, and a clever, one I must admit.

It is a clever game, jenkat. Mine said, "Marry me," the day after we met in person.

His second ex-wife told me--I think in an effort to show me that theirs was a true match--"He asked me to marry him within a few days."

Without thinking, I said, "He did the same with me!"

They are game-players, charlatans, and they are the same with every new target.

Well kris, I was so naive.......I had no idea such monsters walked among us......but now that I know I can't say I regret this new knowledge or awareness in spite of the pain it caused. We can only hope that sharing our experience might spare someone else the pain. I'm actually kind of glad now to know so much about the psychos and sociopaths among us. That song by Katy Perry......."wide awake" i think it says it all.

Reading the book.........The Narcissist Next Door-Understanding the monster in your family, in your office, in your bed, in your world by Jeffrey Kluger

jenkat, I haven't read that one, but I'm sure I will.

It's good when you can think of this experience as something positive. It means you're more than halfway through it.

I am still writing my memoir. He absolutely breaks my heat. To this day. But I understand there are a crowd of us.

I like Katy Perry's "Jar of Hearts." I will have to listen to "Wide Awake."

I don't feel at all comfortable with this guy - he had your phone no., and has never called you. He could be married.

He may be afraid to call thinking you would start calling him a lot. Who knows. I just get a very bad feeling about this situation.

There are hundreds of guys online - please, look through a few more profiles. Dear Heaven, all of us have to protect our hearts and minds.

Take good care.

Eternity,
I concur with AgentSmith's assessment; this guy sounds like a psychopath to me too: he seems already engaged in what psychologists refer to as "love-bombing", which is a big red flag. He has never met with you and yet he's already planning to get married! That reminds me of my ex-psychopath, who though I had met her only a couple of times while on vacation in her native country, wanted to marry me just months after we started video-chatting on Skype.

As for possible tests here are my suggestions:

1) Try to get this guy to talk about his emotions. Ask him for example what scenes in his favorite movies moved him and why. If he's a real psychopath, you will immediately notice how hard they find it to talk about their emotions because their emotions are very shallow or non-existent, except for very negative ones such as envy or hatred. If he's a real psychopath you will see how awkwardly he will talk about emotions when circumstances compel him to; you are likely to hear him repeat cliches or something incongruent (I recall mine telling me "it hurts the soul" to describe heartbreak for example).

2) Ask him to tell you what music he likes; if he then replies with a very generic answer such as "I like all music genres" that could be construed as another indication of shallowness of emotions, which characterizes all psychopaths.

3) Take a close look at his eyes. If you chat with him with video try to get him to look closely at the webcam so that you can see his stare, otherwise ask him to send you a closeup picture of himself. If you cannot detect any emotion in his eyes, that is a red flag because a psychopath's eyes are known to be devoid of life; the eyes of my ex-psychopath were like those of a shark: completely lifeless.

4) Get him to talk about sex, if he hasn't already. If he's a real psychopath you will notice that he has no inhibitions at all in talking about sex and will discuss the subject in all detail. Nothing wrong with that in principle, but then contrast the way he discusses sex with the way he discusses his feelings. If you notice a huge difference, that will be another red flag because psychopaths are highly sexual and uninhibited, but cannot experience positive emotions such as love or compassion.

I hope this helps.

Eternity,
Some more suggestions for possible tests:

1) Get this guy to talk about his ex-girlfriends. If he only has negative things to say about all of them, that could be a red flag because psychopaths are known for always talking ill about their ex girlfriends or wives, or more specifically, for besmirching them.

2) Ask him why his past relationships ended; if he replies that in all cases it was entirely the other's fault and cites some improbable reason such as that a former girlfriend was insane, or that he eventually found out that he was dating a prostitute, that could likely be interpreted as a red flag because psychopaths never, ever admit fault (unless they have an ulterior motive for doing so), and therefore will always blame their ex-girlfriends or wives for the failure of their past relationships.

Thanks everyone for your replies. Yes I am feeling uneasy about this guy due to the excessive marriage and kids talk. I don't feel he is at the point of "love-bombing" me as far as nailing me with texts constantly, saying he loves me, etc...but it is like he is planting suggestions (with the marriage and kids talk) and testing me in some way. I am keeping my eyes very open with this one. Part of me is not just cutting him off because I want to further test him. Not as a game, but to know more clearly. I want to test myself as well because this experience is a good indicator for me if I am doing well at recognizing potentially toxic behaviour or red flags. So far the things you have all said is right in line with my thoughts and feelings on the matter as well.

Part of me has a smidgen of doubt as well...feeling maybe I am judging too harshly too soon and maybe he is just genuinely excited about the prospect of having a family. At the same time, his approach to all that is very abnormal. It feels like he has an agenda. He has not even met me nor talked on the phone and yet he is already talking about a future together. I find his "IF you decide" comments to be insincere because I don't feel like he really truly feels it is a matter that requires much consideration, thought and time. I get the impression he would gladly just jump into a relationship with ANYONE. It is not important which person fills that role, just that SOMEONE does. That seems clear to me by his comments after I said if I were to have a baby by the end of next year I would need to be pregnant by March or April (6 months from now) and he said "That's ok with me". Or his comment that basically sounded like a cheap and classless bribe by saying I could pick out the dog if I give him 2 kids. Yeah ok, I'm not a baby machine and if you think I want to take care of a dog and 2 babies you are sorely mistaken lol I didn't say what I was thinking of course because I want to see a little more of what he has to say.

I asked him a couple questions this morning about where he moved from, where he lived previously, where he grew up, etc and he responded quickly. Which reminds me of something else that sets off the little alert bells in my head. He will be texting me and then just suddenly stop. Like he can literally send a text 2 seconds ago, I respond back, and then he doesn't say anything for hours. Or at night before he goes to bed, we are texting and then rather than say he is going to bed and goodnight, he just stops texting. Same thing in the morning when he goes to work...he will text me a few times and then suddenly stop when he is getting ready for work or heading out. Most people, if they have any manners whatsoever will text and say they have to go or they have to get ready and tell you to have a good day or something. He never does that. When I do that I rarely get a response from him. *cue sirens and bells* lol At first I thought it was just strange and a bit rude, now I think it is very typical of sociopathic behaviour.

My ex socio also started talking about marriage and children very early on. And said he loved me before he had even physically met me. Kris and Jenkat- I find it interesting that you both stated your ex socios/psychos were latino. So was mine! In fact, all the weird behaviour that I saw from him (talking about marriage and children early, saying he loved me, etc and dropping off the earth once in awhile only to turn up later like nothing happened, were all warning signs for me however because he was latino and new to this country I actually thought for the longest time that it was just a cultural thing! In the beginning although I was slightly alarmed I was also happy because I thought at least latinos are not scared to express emotion and talk about marriage etc. You know...the whole stereotype of latinos being more passionate and romantic. I felt relieved that I wouldn't have to play the game of "gently" approaching the subject of "So do you want to have children someday and be married?" in a way that will not make the guy run for the hills lol One part of dating that I always hated. When I realized the truth was he was just a latino sociopath and there was nothing special about him except for his mind was sick and twisted, things became a whole lot clearer.

This new guy...what I have really noted is here is this guy talking about marriage and kids and basically pressuring me with his personal agenda and timeline, and yet he has not even made a suggestion of meeting in person lol My ex did that as well. We didn't meet for nearly 3 months. I met my ex in mid Sept online and we finally met on Dec 1. Which gave him a lot of time to work me over and put ideas in my head.

This guy won't get far with me playing that game. I am all too aware of the consequences. He sent me a text tonight and I didn't bother to respond. I can play games too. But my game is more like "Identify the sociopath" and I want to make sure I am not just going around identifying every behaviour or types as potentially sociopathic.

I'll keep you all updated on what I learn :)

Vesuvius...thank you for the suggestions. I will not discuss sex with him simply because 99% of the guys I have talked to online think talking about sex is a free game they are entitled to and so they ALL seem to get very into it and have a high interest in that. I am very turned off by that. I have been called a prude many times because I refuse to be friends with benefits or send dirty photos to guys. They somehow think they are entitled. I went on a date with a guy a couple months ago. He was nice and we had good conversation and he said he'd like to go out again and catch a movie or something. Everytime after that he would text me and say "let's get drunk" or "I think we would make good FWB" despite me having already told him I wanted a long term serious relationship and would never be FWB with a guy because that is NOT in line with what I want, it makes me cheap and I will not find what I am looking for if I am willing to settle for crumbs. Those were my exact words when the subject came up as if it was casual conversation about what other people are doing in online dating. But he quickly showed me that is what he is looking for. And constantly trying to get me to go drinking with him...like he thinks a few drinks will get me to change my mind and make me easier. Nope. I could probably drink the guy under the table and still walk a straight line lol Making moral decisions while drunk is not a difficult task for me as it is for some. I think many just use that as an easy excuse for bad behaviour. He also would ask me to send him a picture. When I would send a normal face shot he would ask for another. And then complain "that's it?" Well what kind of picture do you want? "Oh I was hoping for a little T&A or something" and then proceeding to try to convince me that this was a good idea lol So no thanks with the sex talk...not gonna go there although I do understand the point you were making in suggesting it.

The emotions thing is a good idea. But I'm not sure that would work so well over text...just because they can take time to really think about how to respoind and so much is lost not being able to read expressions. I have looked at his pictures, at his eyes, and they are the kind of pics that although they are full body shots and you can see the face clearly, you cannot really see the eyes clearly. I have literally saved them, opened them in photoshop, brightened the pictures and zoomed in on the eyes lol But I need something more clear like a head shot. It almost seems his pictures are deliberately chosen not to show his face REALLY clearly.

I am definitely waiting for the "ex" conversation. He has mentioned NOTHING about exes which I also find strange because most people will mention them even in passing. Like "My ex gf and I did this" or she "said that" and that opens the door to asking "so what happened in your previous relationship?" or whatever. It's a door I plan on opening to explore what's behind it but I haven't done so just yet. Should be interesting the response.

The lack of attention to remembering details puts me off big time. Any guy who is truly interested will remember those little details about you. They may forget something once in awhile and when you remind them they'll say "Ohhhh yeah I remember that now" but it's more of a rare occasion. Being that I have emailed this guy for about a month and been texting for just over a week now and he seems to have forgotten more details than he has remembered...that's sending a clear message.

Here is another interesting thing and I am not sure if there is any connection. Exactly 5 days before I met this guy, another guy sent me a message on the same site. The message said "I see you are interested in marriage and having children. Would you be interested in doing that with me some day?" This was the FIRST message! Not even a hello my name is ____. ! lol I responded telling him "I don't understand why people send messages like this before having even met someone and talked to them a bit. I could not possibly determine if you are someone worthy of marrying and having children with by looking at 2 pictures of you and reading a few words you wrote on a profile, and I do not know of any woman in her right mind who would do so. Maybe next time try saying hello and actually asking about someone first before you ask if they want to have your babies." I never received a reply back and his profile was deleted shortly after. 5 days later this guy sends me a message that says I look nice in my pictures, he sees we have similar interests and both want long term, marriage and children and asks if I want to get to know him> Coincidence? It has me wondering if the first profile was a fake and just a "fishing" profile.

Anyways, either way I think you are all right...be aware and count this one out. BedHog is right "trust you gut". Something I have always had trouble doing and yet in the end it is always right. This time I will take that advice I think :)

Thanks for the advice everyone!