Transgender Support Group
This community is here to support and help the large population of transgender people. If you or anyone you know identify as transgender, this is the place to share your feelings and experiences and speak with others who are going through similar things in their lives.
Recently, I responded to a post from one of our fellow members who was debating on whether or not she could be a lesbian. This got me thinking and I decided to see what I could find about trans women who identify as lesbian. I identify as lesbian. It isn't so much about the label or definition as it is about me identifying more with the lesbian community than with heterosexual women.
There are some "issues" when it comes to me identifying as a lesbian, though. The main "issue" is that I was born physically male. Some could argue the fact that since I'm attracted to women that I'm a straight male. Even more so because I have not transitioned as of yet. (I will get to this in a minute.)
Another issue is acceptance. A lot of us try to put on a strong face and say we don't care what others think but I believe we all want to belong somewhere. When I started looking for more information I came across an excerpt of a book named "Challenging Lesbian Norms." I'll put a link up at the end of this post for anyone interested in reading it. What I found so interesting was that the women interviewed did not feel an exclusion from the lesbian community, which I was thinking that the majority of exclusion would come. They did not even have a fear of exclusion. But sadly they were excluded from the trans community in their area. Many of them faced exclusion because they had not transitioned. They were told they were not transsexual because they had not had SRS. In my humble opinion, that is insane. I plan to have SRS, but it's because it is something that I feel like I need. This does not give me the right to tell some who has gender issues that they are any less transsexual (I believe that this applies to both MtF and FtM) because they do not want to go through major surgery. Some people may want to have SRS but because of financial or medical reasons can not.
I'll be posting something similar in the lesbian group to get their opinion on the subject. But I want to know if anyone here has experienced any kind of exclusion such as this because it just seems strange to me that we have so much going against us with discrimination and violence that we would add more problems on ourselves.
Lily
Here is the link: http://books.google.com/books?id=usruybRjfMUC&pg=PA204&lpg=PA204&dq=mtf+trans+lesbian&source=bl&ots=IzScEeI3jL&sig=kG8in5NTgZUZZ9gIi_hxX4btbuA&hl=en&ei=dHd4SticN4qJtgfmls2WCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3#v=onepage&q=mtf%20trans%20lesbian&f=false
There are some "issues" when it comes to me identifying as a lesbian, though. The main "issue" is that I was born physically male. Some could argue the fact that since I'm attracted to women that I'm a straight male. Even more so because I have not transitioned as of yet. (I will get to this in a minute.)
Another issue is acceptance. A lot of us try to put on a strong face and say we don't care what others think but I believe we all want to belong somewhere. When I started looking for more information I came across an excerpt of a book named "Challenging Lesbian Norms." I'll put a link up at the end of this post for anyone interested in reading it. What I found so interesting was that the women interviewed did not feel an exclusion from the lesbian community, which I was thinking that the majority of exclusion would come. They did not even have a fear of exclusion. But sadly they were excluded from the trans community in their area. Many of them faced exclusion because they had not transitioned. They were told they were not transsexual because they had not had SRS. In my humble opinion, that is insane. I plan to have SRS, but it's because it is something that I feel like I need. This does not give me the right to tell some who has gender issues that they are any less transsexual (I believe that this applies to both MtF and FtM) because they do not want to go through major surgery. Some people may want to have SRS but because of financial or medical reasons can not.
I'll be posting something similar in the lesbian group to get their opinion on the subject. But I want to know if anyone here has experienced any kind of exclusion such as this because it just seems strange to me that we have so much going against us with discrimination and violence that we would add more problems on ourselves.
Lily
Here is the link: http://books.google.com/books?id=usruybRjfMUC&pg=PA204&lpg=PA204&dq=mtf+trans+lesbian&source=bl&ots=IzScEeI3jL&sig=kG8in5NTgZUZZ9gIi_hxX4btbuA&hl=en&ei=dHd4SticN4qJtgfmls2WCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3#v=onepage&q=mtf%20trans%20lesbian&f=false
I guess it just really bothers me that I've read so many stories and experiences that I can relate to on a very deep level but I've read just as many horror stories of people who have been judged by people who by all accounts should be their biggest supporters.
Okay..I have to go on a rant about "passing" because I feel it fits. I don't have the voice or body of Michael Clarke Duncan. I'm only 5'5" and people often mistake me for a woman on the phone. That doesn't make me better than anyone...it makes me lucky...that's it. That would be like saying that someone who is only partially bald is better than someone who is fully bald. They're both still bald.
We have to go through one of the hardest things anyone can go through. The suicide rate for people who go through this is atrocious. For those of us who do have the strength to handle this..imagine what we could accomplish if we did support each other.
Sorry..guess I got a little upset.
Lily
I agree with what you say about passing, and I am just greatful that I was blessed in such a way that I am able to "pass", but I could just as easily have had the same issues and feelings, but physical characteristics that didn't allow me to "pass". So I have a great deal of sympathy for people who haven't been blessed as I have.
However, just because a person shares the same issues and feelings as I do doesn't necessarily mean that I will like that person as a friend. I happen to feel that clinging to the transgender community is just a different closet to be in, and it still limits a persons horizons and possibilities.
Also, I am a recovering alcoholic with long term sobriety. When I explored the transgender community, one of the things I found is that the social life of the community revolves around clubs, bars and parties, and that substance abuse is rampant among the trans community. That isn't surprising really when you are so fundamentally misadjusted to normal society, and it helps to explain some why the suicide rate is so atrocious. But in my case, it makes it even more difficult for me to embrace the Trans community. I do have some trans friends that I interact with, but for the most part I have to live my life within normal everyday society, and I find my support and friends from all walks of life, not just one isolated segment of it.
In the end, I guess the best way to put it is that we are all children of God, and that everyone needs and deserves to be loved, regardless of thier particular issues
Respectfully longwinded
Symantha
When I first started this topic I started by talking about both the lesbian community and the trans community. This topic has evolved and I haven't posted anything into the lesbian support group because I feel that they have a strong sense of community; where I don't feel that we do. I feel that this discussion has become an expression of my sense of that need of a community. Symantha's post enforces this need. As much as we may try to blend in we are different. Is it really such a bad thing to acknowledge that difference? To come together and create a place to turn especially when there is nowhere else. There was a time when the gay community was stereotyped for drug use and partying. Our advocates and spokespeople should not be those of us who create that same image.
Wow, I can really get on a soapbox. I didn't expect this to take this road but I keep thinking of the children who go through this, my own pain and what I've dealt with (most of it has been alone except for my wife)..and this site is wonderful but you would not believe how long it took me to find this place. We could use something more. I think I'll add that to my list of 1000000000000 projects.
I happen to be sexually orientated to men now. To me my being with a man is a heterosexual relationship. There are many people though that would insist that it is in fact a homosexual relationship. You know, it doesn't really matter what it is called, what matters is that I am me, and I accept my sexual orientation and live and be true to myself, regardlesss of what label somebody else might put on that.
As far as whether a person is transsexual or not, no matter what label others would put on it, what really matters is what the individual learns and believes of themselves. And the question or qualification as to whether a person is transsexual or not based on having surgery is just foolish and ignorant. Transition and transsexuality are a state of mind and being, it doesn't depend on hormones, surgery or lifestyle, it is about brain gender, identity and feelings. Anybody can take hormones, have surgery, but if they weren't differently gendered in the first place, there will be no real transition taking place.
In the end it all comes back to acceptance. And yeah, to accept, it is imperative to have validation and support from other people. And it is also necessary to live it, otherwise we simply will not experience the things we need to, won't even know the things that we need to accept.
ok, I will shut up now before I put my foot in my mouth, if I haven't done it allready.
In Friendship and Fellowship;
Symantha