Transgender Support Group
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"I think this question was more geared toward women who are biologically women , being bi sexual"
So on the healthy sex group, I had posted a comment regarding me being bisexual in a forum that was about women being bisexual, and this is the god damned response someone said in return.
Well, those who know me know that I don't keep my mouth shut when someone wants to act like a cunt. My guy knows this, my family knows this. And here is my exact response to her.. bear in mind I did not copy the name just because I don't want to open a can of worms on her.
" a woman is a woman regardless of being TG or GG. The only difference is that a GG takes for granted what God gave to her and a TG works hard for what he didn't give to her. I'd say in the end usually a TG woman is more of a woman since most GG's takes their hormones and stuff for granted.
For example, do you see a GG taking estrogen shots, putting an estrogen patch on her or taking pills, and taking T blockers just to be a woman? No. Women take not having to do that for granted. Me, I have had to take estrogen just to have the itty bitty titties I have. I had to undergo surgery just to have a "vagina". I'd say instead of trying to make a stab at me for being TG, you should look at yourself and realize, what I do to be me, you never had to do and be grateful God gave you the correct body."
And that my sisters and brothers is me being nice about this whole ordeal. I could have gotten mad and went off on her. But.. I chose not to, because in the end it's better to educate the stupid people than it is to get mad and give them what they want, which is an angry response.
So on the healthy sex group, I had posted a comment regarding me being bisexual in a forum that was about women being bisexual, and this is the god damned response someone said in return.
Well, those who know me know that I don't keep my mouth shut when someone wants to act like a cunt. My guy knows this, my family knows this. And here is my exact response to her.. bear in mind I did not copy the name just because I don't want to open a can of worms on her.
" a woman is a woman regardless of being TG or GG. The only difference is that a GG takes for granted what God gave to her and a TG works hard for what he didn't give to her. I'd say in the end usually a TG woman is more of a woman since most GG's takes their hormones and stuff for granted.
For example, do you see a GG taking estrogen shots, putting an estrogen patch on her or taking pills, and taking T blockers just to be a woman? No. Women take not having to do that for granted. Me, I have had to take estrogen just to have the itty bitty titties I have. I had to undergo surgery just to have a "vagina". I'd say instead of trying to make a stab at me for being TG, you should look at yourself and realize, what I do to be me, you never had to do and be grateful God gave you the correct body."
And that my sisters and brothers is me being nice about this whole ordeal. I could have gotten mad and went off on her. But.. I chose not to, because in the end it's better to educate the stupid people than it is to get mad and give them what they want, which is an angry response.
Frankly, I think your point of view is very presumptuous (as were a lot of the other comments on that thread, I read it).
One comment in particular i thought was ridiculous. Someone stated that 'most women are only bi sexual for attention'.
...And they would know this, how? Do they speak for all bi sexual women? I point that out specifically because in the same means, I don't see how you can speak for the merit of who is more appreciative of being a woman, TG's or GG's?.... I mean, to even argue that is very arrogant.
I can safely say that I know of a least a few females who would never trade their gender. They love who they are. That fact negates your point. Mind you, it doesn't prove the opposite is true. It simply means that your over-generalized assumption is flawed.
As for which ins is more appreciative, it's not arrogant, when you look at the fact that a TG has to take hormones in a physical form just to have their bodies match their minds. Most women who are genetically women take it for granted. So yeah, it's like someone getting a car for their 16th birthday, the kid who gets it from old mom and dad appreciates it, but not like the person who worked hard for it. Same goes with the differences between a GG and a TG woman.
1)It has become more socially acceptable for women to come out with their gender diversity, or
2)Mostly women are bi/gay (or have the capacity to fake it)
That second option sounds kinda ridiculous. So I'm going to have to go with option 1.
I'm going to ignore the 'what god gave them' part of that last rebuttal, as it will digress into a whole other debate. Let's say, hypothetically, that a born woman had to have her breast removed because of cancer or something. I'm sure that she would appreciate having breasts. Or how about the women who work with these patients. I'm sure they are confronted everyday with the reality of not having all their womanly endowments.
Oh, I just thought of a great demographic that I KNOW fully appreciates the full value of their girl parts. Strippers. I've actually been friends with some strippers in the past. One was even my bellydance instructor for a while (she is now a wonderful mother). Strippers LOVE being women. They love their woman parts. That's their money makers. haha
I think actually, any mother will; tell you that they fully appreciate their vagina's for giving them the opportunity to bear children. Until you can refute a mothers love for her child (and their ability to nurse them as infants), you cannot stand to say that women do not appreciate their parts. I mean, if their is ANY definition of what it is to be a woman, it is to be a mother.
Strippers appreciate their parts because of money? Money is why they appreciate them, because without their bosoms hanging all over the place the money wouldn't exist. Which is a poor reason for appreciating one's boobs. Women appreciating their vagina's because of child bearing? Not all genetic women can bear children. But even then it's a better reason than it bringing a stripper money. A TG person truly appreciates everything that gain from hormones and/or surgery. Not because it brings them money, or because they used it to bear the fruits of life, but because it truly brings them happiness, self esteem and it makes them feel like who they truly are. Do you see a woman getting excited over puberty? No, because that's the course of their life that God provided for them. And yes I will use God in my discussion, because while I am a postop MtF, I also believe in God. Take it how you want I honestly don't give a damn. But for a TG woman God is giving them a harder life to test them. That's just my opinion.
TG women undergo therapy to help them deal with their feelings and how society will react from their transition, forking out money for each session. They have to put up with bullying and harassment on the daily basis just for being different, not to say other people don't get that. Once a therapist clears them for HRT, they don't immediately see results as per a normal woman's puberty. Some women have to have facial feminization surgery just to have a femme face. Others don't. But one thing all women of the TG world have to do just to be a woman is surpress their testosterone, something genetic women don't have to do. This is why they get on spyronolactone. This also makes it easier for the estrogen and progesterone depending on if you take one or both to enter your body. Again women who were born with a woman's body don't do this, therefore they are not truly affected what their body goes through in a sense that that's exactly what they wanted. A tg woman since they are very young knows who they are, and knows that they have to work their whole life for it. Once on estrogen and T blockers you're on them for life (T blockers until, if you choose to do so, get srs). Again women don't have to worry about that. Also once you decide to get SRS, are cleared and are waking up in the recovery room and they take the packing out, you have to use medical stents every single day 3-5 times a day for 5-10 minutes each to prevent your nu-vagina from caving in. Women who were born with a natural vagina don't have to do this, hence why TG women appreciate it more, because they have to keep their vagina in tact. They appreciate their boobs more because they had to work their asses off going through therapy and dealing with harassment just to gain them. No genetic woman ever has to do that to be a woman.
So I am sorry you take my comment as arrogant, but until you identify as a woman with the wrong body and have to go through a trans woman's life, you have no right to say it's arrogant until you're on the other end. If I wasn't on this end I would be spouting to someone who said what I said that they are arrogant. But hey you can ask my friends (off this site) as well as my family if I am arrogant, and they can tell you otherwise.
To add to the list, I am also autistic. And my dad read up on autism and most autistic people are in touch with who they are from a very young age, maybe 3? Most people have to go half their life to find out who they truly are, some may not have to, but an autistic person never had to experience life or be exposed to mainstream media to know who they are.
I knew from the time I was a toddler I was a girl. I would come home from daycare and try on my mom's hosiery. When I was in pre-k I would dress up in the girls' stuff in the dress up corner. When I played T-ball I'd cry if I got out before getting to first base. I was also very shy as a little one. Most boys don't do any of that. I didn't even know where to put my finger on myself in terms of a label until I got the internet when I was 12 and did my research. When I was 16 I came out and went fulltime. I got on hormones when I was 18 and got SRS 5 days before turning 23 thanks to help from family.
So don't tell me that I am arrogant when you have not walked the path of a transsexual female. I have also been around transgendered chatrooms and have a few trans friends. They all 100% appreciate everything hormones do for them. I know those who wish to do surgery who were excited to hell and back when they get their surgery dates set, and they count down every single day until that day comes so that they may have a vagina, even if they will have to dilate for the rest of their life to keep it from caving in. It is what their hearts most desire. I know when I grew beasts I was happy as fuck, since before they I had none and had to stuff my bras. I was happy when I had a surgery date because I honestly hated tucking and hated if my balls would slip out. Not no more.
So like I said before, you have stated that you don't really know where you fit in, me I knew who I was since I was 3 or 4, I have gone through the transition 100%, which most don't do until they get older when they actually have the money to make the full plunge. I have had to deal with closedminded rednecks putting a noose on my dad's truck because they were judgmental pricks. I had people tell me to kill myself, tell me I was a boy no matter what I did because I can't bear the fruits of life. And you know what, all those people don't matter to me because they are nothing to me.
So if you have any further argument please tell it to someone else, because you have not walked in my shoes.
Your past and upbringing are as equally irrelevant to the discussion as are mine.
My issue with what you said was simply this: You cannot possibly speak for everyone else out there. To reiterate that point, you cannot speak for anyone else BUT yourself.
Once you start making generalizations, you only stand to be incorrect. When you assume that everyone out there is going to feel a certain way, just because you deem it so... well, you are inevitably going to be wrong. My opinion is just as weighted as yours, and in that light they are also both as invalid.
While you tell me that I have no voice because I am not a transsexual MtF, you are also not a natural born female. So in the same way that I cannot speak for the feelings of a post op woman, you cannot speak for the feelings of a genetically born woman.
...and again, I STILL don't see what TG or GG has ANYTHING to do with being bisexual.
I don't know your personal life. how could I? You are still making this about you. This isn't about you. This isn't about your friends. I'm not trying to antagonize you. I'm just trying to point out that you are arguing something as fact when it is just your opinion.
If you want to talk of how ALL TS women are so much more appreciative than ALL other women., this topic then ceases to be about you and your personal experience.
Do you have facts to back this up? Maybe a poll that rated the appreciation of TS and Natural women on their self appreciation? ANY kind of cited reference to back up your claim? Something with numbers? Something official? Something other than your own opinion or stated matter-of-fact? No? Until you do... yes, this conversation is pointless and I will cease debating with you as it is irrelevant.
I wish you the best, and I sincerely hope you don't harbor any ill feeling over this little spat. I look forward to sharing ideas with and from you on other topics in the future. :)