Okay...there is nothing wrong in loving them...but why would I continue to love someone who obviously hates me...actions speak very loudly...am I not then hurting myself??

And how does anyone convince them that loving...will cure anything?

I do sincerely think that in the cases of Parental alienation that there is a chance maybe even a good chance that love will overcome the other parents lies and I am very very glad Epic that you have succeeded with two...hopefully three

When the adult child (after many years and over the age of 30) has for whatever reason chosen the alienation and they have lied to themselves perhaps...how does love overcome that ?? seriously ??

AllK

EJ - I have been here before and now I am back. I took time off to try to repair a damaged relationship with my "42" year old daughter. I am another mother that raised her by the golden rule, as I was raised and and I try to live by that regardless.

Yes they are suppose to be responsible adults well before this age of their life. Yet mine refuses to let go of grudges she developed against her sister since they were in their early teens - and apparently me as well. We have even tried a counselor, she would only clam up and not speak. I have suggested the two of us go to counseling together only to be told "so now you think I am crazy.". As everyone else has said nothing works. I believe that is especially true with mothers & daughters more so than their dads.

Also since we all deserve to be happy we have to face the reality of the situation at some point otherwise we all (or at least I do) worry constantly. I developed stomach issues related to the stress and was told I could developed a bleeding ulcer if it continued. I have chosen my health over the worry. The way I see it now I did not create this drama, and without her honesty & willingness to repair it cannot be fixed.

Most of us here have gotten ourselves sick over the worry and going out of our way to fix something we have no control over. I think we are at the point when we realize we have to take care of ourselves and need to do whatever is involved to make that happen. I can understand what you are saying and in a perfect world I would agree. I am happy you have reconciled with two of your daughters and I wish you the best with the third. I do have an older daughter and a son that are amazing adults and not at all like the one that is estranged. I simply cannot continue making myself ill if she does not care enough to meet me halfway, that does not however mean I would ever stop loving her.

We should not fret. We should not worry. We should be overcome with guilt, anger, rage, all of those things that we naturally feel. We are human beings for God's sake. What we SHOULD do . . . is love. Why? Because they are our children and no matter what we or they do or say, that will never change. We love them not because of who THEY are. We love them because of who WE are. I go into the battle with you, my friends. Peace and love --EJ

correction: we should NOT be overcome with guilt . . .

We are all definitely the better people...but the loving of ones who do not love back is pretty difficult for me...I suppose in general sense I would agree that parents love their children forever...somewhere deep in their heart or soul just because we are their parents...wish it was a two way street though and they did also love us somewhere.

AllK

When they do not love us back it is unnatural, infuriating, wrong, unjust, and the list goes on and on. It is easy to keep careful track of that list of wrongs. The harder thing is to love when it is not reciprocated. If it were a marriage, most of us would walk away, and that would be it. But you can't divorce your children. They exist. They will always exist. And your destiny and their destiny will always be tied together by blood and history. I believe that some really have endured so much that they have lost the love for their child. I will not comment on that right now because I think it could be hurtful to some very good people, and I don't want to do that. But we don't want to go there if we can avoid it. Love your child. Love her with all that you have in you for her. That is how it is supposed to be. If you cannot see her - that is ok. Maybe that is what's best in your individual situation. But love her because of who you are and what she is to you, existentially. In my faith, I believe the rest will take care of itself, whether or not I see her.

Allk, please ignore my question if it annoys you. But, could you tell us some of the wonderful things that you love about your daughter and your time spent with her growing up?

I have tons of good memories and pictures and momentos from the time she was born until about 2 or 3 years ago...many many presents from her and cards and books and wonderful things..manymany proud moments and no...I have not thrown any of it away or taken down pictures etc...It was a pretty good time for all...

But today is today and what is ...is what is and although your question does not annoy me at all..it would serve no useful purpose to go over all the great memories just to wonder at the end...What happened and listen to the deafening silence...and besides it would bore everyone LOL

And it is true...you only get one mother...they too will learn that and our very blood courses thru their veins...to deny that is to deny themselves...that is what is sad for all

AllK

Allk, I have a sense of you. I have "listened" to you in many contexts and I have a great deal of respect for you. You are intelligent and forceful. Your daughter had to pick that up from you. You don't need to tell me the stories but I know you know them. Its kind of personal, I understand. I have some that I would like to tell at an appropriate time. Hurtful, painful ones that show how stupid I was. Like the time my ex-wife was at her wits end and demanded that I "do something" about my oldest daughter's insolence and disrespect. I am a well-known lawyer, so I went down to the courthouse and with my ex's permission, demanded that the state remove my daughter from our home and put her into foster care. Looking back, I can't believe that I did that. I won't rely upon the excuse that my ex "made me do it." Well, the problem was that we had just endured, and endured, and endured this for so long that by the time we went through with it, the judge looked at me and said, "Mr. _______, do you realize that your daughter will be 18 next month and it takes two months to book the case on my calendar?" I knew that, of course, but it is just part of the insanity that we deal with when we go through this. My daughter laughed at me and walked out of the courtroom with her lawyer, that my brother paid for. Yes, I know. That's another whole story. I have the feeling Allk that I should be PMing you with all this, but I have nothing to hide these days. Shame is a commodity that I cannot afford. I want to tell our stories. I think that is what will do the most good - not just share our very extensive and impressive checklists of everything our kids ever did to us.

Epic:

I have a question: You say "why not love them" ... I don't think we have any control over what we "feel" regarding whether we continue to love our ADULT children or not. I do and I believe I speak for many. Those who feel they hate their EC, still care in some way ... their anger is speaking.
The opposite of love is not hate; it is indifference.

You also say "Serious or prolonged abuse should not be accepted by parents or children of any age"
My question to you is this: What do you think Estrangement is? IMHO, estranging someone for other than egregious behavior, which, to me, is abuse/any form, IS ABUSE. What could be more abusive than removing someone from your life who has loved you and been good to you? I will address only one form of abuse that occurs in estrangement and that is The Silent Treatment. The Silent Treatment is one of the most severe forms of abuse that exists. It says, in effect, you are so worthless to me that you don't exist.

hugs jade
we can still love them but recognize abuse for what it is
silent treatment,financial abuse,psychological power plays,scapegoating...

Agree, explorer. I also understand how one can "stop loving" the ADULT "child" . Things can go on for so long and be so bad that a person stops loving whether they want to or not. Even if it is their own child. There is only so much pain, abuse, mistreatment, etc., that a human being can take. I have read horrific stories of EC who do not come to a parent's funeral, do not come when a parent is dying, etc.

When I judge (and this applies to my ED also), and I do judge, I remind myself that I can also be judged.

The Thread Title "What's Wrong With Loving Them" suggests to me that we do NOT love them. Or that, if we do not, we should.

Many have said they do not love their children anymore. Some have said they don't know if they do. I think the answer to that question is very important, whether or not we have "reconciliation" with our children.

Epic:
You ask a lot of questions, many of which have no clear-cut answers. Do you believe if one loves one's child and does all the right things, one achieves reconciliation?

You say many have said they don't love their children? I have been following these threads very closely and I don't see that at all. Even if a parent says "I don't love my child", what does this mean? Is this hurt or anger speaking? If one says "I hate my child", the same question applies.

You mentioned earlier, that we should not accept abuse from our children. You are right.. Estrangement is a horrific form of abuse with its attendant behaviors such as the Silent Treatment (well-known form of severe emotional abuse) and withholding grandchildren (severe punishment). Estrangement of a loving, non-abusive parent is a cruel, unjustifiable thing to do.