I believe you, that's why I asked. Ok more later.. (hugs)

Thanks for the words of wisdom. Greatly appreciated.
struggling with going to GC events & being ignored. Guess I should appreciate that I get to go to some things. It could be worse.

((((HUGS)))) everybodycounts. It's not easy.

I agree, Cara. Not only are they depriving the grands, they are depriving themselves. They want us to leave them alone? That means, no mom to run over to make dinner and give the kids a bath before bed when they have a headache. No mom to pick up the kids for them or take them to piano lessons when they're running late at work. No mom to listen to you cry and tell you, there, there, it'll be all right, how can I help? No mom washing the dishes after a holiday meal so they can relax in front of the TV and watch the game. No mom to pitch in with laundry help -- or a new washer -- when they can't afford to buy a new one or fix the old one.

And it forces them to continue the lies and also to cover them up. When people ask So, how's your mom? they not only have to think up a lie, it has to be a different lie than the one they told the last time, or they will be exposed as the liars they are. Oh, too bad your mom's not here. How come she couldn't make it to <baby's christening, Christmas dinner, dance recital, tae kwon-do tournament, school play, whatever>? Now they have to think of yet another lie -- and blame us for putting them on the spot!

Oh, the list of the harm they cause -- to us, to their kids, and to themselves -- is endless.

For us, not so difficult. We can say the same thing whenever anyone asks us similar questions, "I don't get to see the kids as much as I'd like, now that they are grown and on their own." And it's NOT a lie!!!

@IronCowGirl, I know your pain. I have experienced the same thing you have, all of it. And you are right, you can't even *try* to fend off the lies and manipulations because the kids view it as "picking on dad" and it alienates them all the more.

Just goes to show that these evil bums we married are the world's biggest sissies. . . they couldn't come out and fight like a man, they had to whine and cry "victim!" and hide behind our children. Freaking wusses.

That's not how my son's life is though, Igave. He has 'her' mother and 3 sisters to dote on them and take care of the kids. I am NOT missed in the least. Makes me sick

Paws let em all choke on each other!!! eventually cruel bastards like that end up eating their own and when they do as i say let them choke on it!!!

hahahahaha Good one, Cara.. that's the truth there!!!

Regarding GC's events.....Again "everybody..." I can so relate. I was doing ok with sporting events for awhile because although my ex goes and his wife, I can deal with them (or NOT deal with them). And my ES doesn't go to my dd's kids events because his kids do not do sports and they are somewhat jealous.

Anyway, my gs made soccer playoffs recently and it was big in our area. As I was on my way to game, dh was already there and thankfully he called me and said, "not only is your ex here but your es." My ex thought it was a good idea to tell my es (who is so close to ex) that this was a big game and he should come and watch his nephew. I made a decision to turn around and go home. I have dealt with a lot of events over the years but now I am at a point where I really have to pick and choose how much I want to deal with. BTW, dh stayed at the soccer game but he handles things better than I do. He knew it would not have been good for me to be there.

Through the years, I have had to mostly deal with ex at birthdays of gc, graduations, etc. We never talk and it is awkward but I always did it for gc. This past year, I had to make some decisions which were best for me and I told dd. I love my dd's kids and we are close but they don't know what is going on with me and their uncle and cousins. I told my daughter I love the kids but now with ES possibly being at games too and maybe my gs who is not allowed to speak to me......well, I am drawing the line.

This weekend, my dd's one son is playing in an all-star football game. He just started playing and I am going to suck this one up because I really, really want to go. But I am going to pick and choose more than I did in the past which events I will go to. And I must confess, my dd doesn't exactly smother me with love and affection when I attend these things. She tries to remain "neutral" and that means she talks to everyone and often my dh and I feel like outsiders. Her in-laws are closer to ex and his wife than to dh and myself although we are cordial. They talk about things, even about my dd and siL, which I don't even know about.

Oh....just need to mention, again like you, I wasn't invited to my ES's wedding or baby's birth, etc.

So......back to events. Do what is best for YOU. Early on, I could take a lot more and did it, as I said, for the grands. But now I am older, tired, hate feeling like an outsider when I am at these things, so I pick and choose. Everyone loves my ex. He acts so friendly to my dd's friends, talks loud, hugs them, all of it. My dh is the best but nothing like him. If he grunts a "hello" that is something. But he is not phony and is who he is. Kids like him so that says something(lol) Then again, it could be the cowboy hat he wears that the kids like.

I decided that games are just that.....games. I spend good, quality one-on-one time with dd's kids. They sleep over, ride our horses, have been on vacation with us, etc. So......if I am not at every game, I know it won't affect our relationship. When you do attend events, make sure you have a support person with you and you don't have to stay the whole time for parties, etc. Hugs to you, girlfriend........

Good advice here, Paws.

But, you know, they *could* double the love and support they get from one grandma if they only were smart enough to allow you into their lives, too.

Igave thats where you give them too much credit> It isnt about Love for our Eks its about Control and Moot Points they seem to feel they have to prove to the world and themselves,,,,,,However they havent yet figured out what they are trying to prove who they think or are trying to impress!!!! mental Morons!

hahaha mental morons! haha Yes indeed. I think my dil is trying to prove she is grown and doesnt want anyone telling her what to do! Oh the life my son is going to have with her. Not the life I wanted for him that's for sure.

Paws, I believe I mentioned this before but I will again. My friend from DS was estranged from her son for 5 years and I hardly could believe stories about dil and, honestly, my friend had words with her too, so need I say more? Only saw first gd when born 5 years ago and just met 3 yr old several months ago.

Out of nowhere, my friend received text from diL that they wanted to become a family again. This weekend they are taking girls overnite to Polar Express train ride in NC. Yes we have to attempt to move forward but none of knows what the future will bring.

Have a good weekend all.....

Yes, we being mothers (and fathers) do always hold the hope in our heart that they will one day make amends.
(((BIG HUGS))) Cowgirl.. enjoy your family

Yup, Cara, I must have been delirious with fever or something. Because for a minute there, I assumed they were actual decent human beings. . . what is wrong with me!!!!!

IMO......having 5 grands we have not nor will ever see as long as the EC's are in charge......we have had to come to the realist conclusion that we probably won't like our grown grands any better than we like their parents. After accepting without any doubt left that Mud is thicker than Blood....well....we don't see much to look forward to. We have also learned that HOPE can be very destructive when faced with the reality of estrangement. It's just best to focus on US and OUR FUTURES. Hugs to all, we walk this path together!