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DarknessEmbraced
A TV series centered around a secret society devoted to chasing immortality by seeking refuge in the bodies of others.
The first episode airs tonight. Airs on BBC America. I'm watching the pilot soon.
The first episode airs tonight. Airs on BBC America. I'm watching the pilot soon.
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I guess Rose would think that she could shake Jack's questioning of her if she just told him just enough to satisfy his questioning and hope he'd then leave her alone - but surely sharing that she buried the baby after forcibly aborting it is not going to make him stop asking questions, it's only going to make him ask more.
As for the books, I thought they were like a sort of owner's manual. It kind of reminds me of how in the movie "Beetlejuice" when the couple died they come back to their house to find "The Handbook For The Recently Deceased" to explain to them what the afterlife was all about. I think the books the Qui Reverti give their recently triggered members is sort of a "So You've Awoken In A New Body...Now What?" helpful handbook how-to guide, since it has pictures of where to go once they've taken over their new bodies and all that. I would assume that is why Rose had two books in foreign languages - they weren't meant to be read by Amy, I don't think, but by Rose. I assume the ceremony they do prior to alleviating a Qui Reverti from their body connects them to the trigger - when Jack and Gary saw the ceremony being done to Cranfield it appeared that Richard held an object in front of him for a while as others chanted and such - I would guess it's like "the last thing they see" sort of thing and then the person is completely bound like a mummy. The bigger question is how does the soul of the deceased person get into a baby upon birth? That is apparently when the other soul attaches to a new body so it's not like the soul is attached to the object (which maybe would've made more sense in the long run) but just that when the new body comes in contact with that trigger that it brings forth the Qui Reverti soul within.
I think since a lot of what the Qui Reverti does revolves around the symbolic properties of 9 in numerology, that it either means there are only 9 members within the Qui Reverti or 9 who are in charge of who gets to be among them. I don't know if that 9 would include the Shepherds or not though, but figure we know about Rose and Marcus, the Whelans' neighbors, Cranfield, Gary's daughter, presumably Todd Crane since he's involved in this stuff too... that's 7 right there. Count Richard and Frank in the mix and that'd be 9. But I doubt Richard would've mentioned Rose being one of the 9 if he was too...
It was a bit quiet on the Maddie/Marcus front last week... I imagine we'll be getting more from that this week though. It seems the detective that was handling the old cases against him thinks he's still alive but had hoped he was dead - so what will he think if he finds out that guy was technically killed by a 9 year-old girl?
Yes Rose telling Jack about her forcibly aborting the baby will make him question more not less. Especially since he's examining his memories of Rose/Amy's behaviors much more in depth.
I never thought of the books as being owner manuals but you're right. I remember The Handbook for the Recently Deceased in Beetlejuice as well. Yes, the trigger object must be the last thing that the Qui Reverti sees before they are completely bound like a mummy. I remember seeing a fish tank full of Sand Dollars at Marcus' place when he met with Richard.
Maybe the 9 is just the symbol of the Qui Reverti as there are 9s on the covers of the instruction manuals?
The detective must know about the Qui Reverti because why would be know right away that Marcus is back?
Based on Rose's stories and multiple trigger items (side note: how would she have all her old triggers? Does her shepherd collect them all and then give them all back to her each time she returns? I wonder...) and Marcus' story about committing murders while a part of Mozart's orchestra, it is clear the Qui Reverti have been around for at least a couple hundred years. Just how far back in time they go though, who knows...
9 is symbolic in numerology - here's the best description I could find for it's significance and I think it actually relates to the show's premise very well:
"When you multiply any number by 9, then add the resulting digits and reduce them to a single digit, it always becomes a 9. For example, 6 x 9 = 54, reduce 54 to a single digit by adding them together: 5 + 4 = 9. Similarly, 8 x 9 = 72, and 7 + 2 = 9. Or 23 x 9 = 207, 2 + 0 + 7 = 9, and so forth. There is nothing coincidental about this peculiarity. Try it. Any number, no matter how large, multiplied by 9 reduces to 9. From a numerological perspective, the 9 simply takes over, like the infamous body snatchers. Any number that was initially increased by a factor of 9 loses its own identity and instead takes on the characteristics of the 9. No other number has that quality. A different, but no less distinctive and revealing, attribute of the 9 is that when you add (as opposed to multiply) it to any other number, then reduce that number to a single digit, it always comes back to itself, as if nothing was added at all. For example, 5 + 9 = 14, 1 + 4 = 5. Or 7 + 9 = 16, 1 + 6 = 7. 24 (which reduces to 6) + 9 = 33, 3 + 3 = 6... When the 9 appears as a cycle, it often denotes a finality, the completion of an era. The 9 as a cycle is frequently seen as an indicator of death. This is simplistic and wrong. What one or more 9 cycles does suggest is that you are in the final stages of a period or endeavor, that you need to empty your bucket and prepare for the new and that there are opportunities to make a difference."
I got all that off a website about numerology after just doing a search for the meaning of 9 in numerology. I would imagine the writer of the book the show is based off of either knew of the 9 significance in numerology or did a lot of research - that 9 multiplication thing pretty much sums up the Qui Reverti in a sense... which makes me wonder what would happen if they "add" instead - and is that the answer to bringing Amy, Madison, and little Emily back?
I assumed though that when Richard specifically noted the nine to Rose (in that she was a part of the nine) he was referring to a group of nine rather than just the numeric 9 as a general property.
I didn't get the impression the detective knew anything about Qui Reverti before talking to Jack in the last episode, otherwise he would've realized when they first questioned Marcus way back when he would've realized Marcus was describing all the murders he previously had committed throughout his many previous lives, all presumably cold cases. The detective assumed Marcus was back because A) he was never caught when they found all those bodies in his house the last time. He snuck out when they were about to nab him. B) that guy who took Madison in when she showed up at the door was found dead and bound in similar fashion to Marcus' previous victims and it was in Marcus' old home. C) The detective said there'd been no sign of Marcus for 9 years and he had thought Marcus either skipped town and never returned or he died since he was pretty old at the time anyway. He obviously planned his transition to happen right around the time he realized the cops were closing in on him and as we know he's been stuck inside Madison for the past 9 years waiting for his chance to take over.
I would think actually that the detective would be thinking more that it was a copycat killer than Marcus being back since Marcus was an old man nine years prior when they were attempting to arrest him and he fled. That and Marcus was more prone to murder younger people than the guy that bought the house so it doesn't exactly fit his m.o. But with Jack now confirming Marcus' name being tied to the same property as his wife and several others who are a part of this group of some sort and Jack having seen the recording of Marcus talking about murders from hundreds of years prior acting like he's some sort of historian, you'd think they'd start putting two and two together...
Is next week the finale? It appears that it might be... I sure hope this show gets renewed because I don't think they're really going to be done telling the story by next week (though I could be wrong...)
Creepy Marcus Confession video. It's really eerie seeing that video than thinking of how many of Marcus' mannerisms are present in Madison.
Who was the guy in the holding cell with John? How did he know about Amy and Rose?
Marcus certainly knows how to motivate Todd to convince him to let him meet with Rose. Todd helps cover for the Qui Reverti. His company is only a front to protect Rose.
I don't get why Richard would think it would be easier to get rid of Marcus by triggering him while Maddie was still a child... did he think Marcus wouldn't be strong enough then or that it would be easier on himself to take out a kid rather than an adult? Frankly Richard should've taken Marcus' money but then not followed through with putting him into another body; that would've been the easiest way of getting the cash but not having to deal with Marcus or the grief about bringing him back when he was not going to be allowed to anymore.
That video of Marcus and the matching of mannerisms just shows how good of an actress that little girl playing Madison/Marcus is. The fact that when Marcus comes out you can really truly believe she's not some innocent little 9 year-old but some creepy old man psycho killer is pretty impressive.
I don't know who the guy was in the cell with Jack - whether he's Qui Reverti or just a crazy person, or someone who can see and speak to dead people (albeit likely still crazy given how the guy behaved) who's to say. But remember Gary suggested to Jack with his researching that he thought the notion of Qui Reverti may explain some mental illnesses like schizophrenia or multiple personality. So the guy in the cell could've been Qui Reverti but the host hasn't turned his body completely over to the intruder and that could be how he would know about Jack's son and say he was able to speak to him. Or he's a medium who's also a little cray cray. Either way though, could explain how he would know what he did - either because he's in on things as a part of Qui Reverti or he's a wackadoodle but he can talk to the dead. I'm going to guess the former though since he did say "in the beginning there was death" did he not? That seems to be their tag line...
Todd clearly is not Qui Reverti but just works for them - though after Jack beating him up and Richard following suit and Marcus taking his daughter hostage and all, something tells me Todd's going to want out real soon...
And what's up with Gary killing himself? Does he really think strapping that stuff to his body and then jumping right in front of that building that is connected to the Qui Reverti is a good idea? I would think if any Qui Reverti find him before the cops get there to collect him, they would get a hold of all that stuff and nothing will get out like he had hoped. Jack better get down to his body first... but will that get him into hot water if he's seen there by Rose or Richard or anyone else in the mix who might be on their way there?
I agree that Richard should have just taken Marcus' money but not brought him back. Marcus draws more attention to the Qui Reverti because he binds his victims the same way a body is bound by the Qui Reverti in order to imprint them with their trigger so they can return. Of course the binding of the body is ceremonial according to Richard. Maybe Richard thought it would be easier to kill Marcus as a kid because a child wouldn't be as physically strong as an adult. What he didn't count on is that Marcus' soul is really strong and would be strong no matter what body he is in.
The little girl who plays Madison/Marcus is phenomenal! I agree you can see the change when she switches from Madison to Marcus. She gets a certain look in her eyes if you know what I mean.
I agree that the guy in the cell must have been Qui Reverti whose host hadn't turned his body completely over to the intruder. From what Bix said about what it's like to have the host and intruder fighting(an itch on the inside) as well as physical pain in the body(headaches, nausea) it would be really torturous. Some people's minds might not be able to handle the mental and physical stress. Yes he did say "In the beginning there was death".
Todd is definitely wanting to get out of working for the Qui Reverti but it wouldn't be that easy since Rose could dispatch a Shepherd to kill him or hurt his family in order to force him to continue working for them.
I don't understand why Gary thought killing himself was a good idea either. What did he mean that he would fight them from the other side? Unless Jack gets to Gary's body first all that evidence that he had strapped to himself would be taken by the Qui Reverti. I'm not sure how Jack can get to Gary's body to get the evidence without being seen by the Qui Reverti.
What I don't get is why Gary wouldn't have just walked into the police station and handed all that stuff to a detective or mailed it to them or left it to Jack - taping it to himself? I guess he figures no one will see what's on him until his body is collected and then it would get turned over to the cops when they are investigating his suicide. But surely it would make more sense to hand it over to Jack or find a detective that seems trustworthy and not one of the QR to give it to (I mean, nothing says that when the cops get it that the cop who takes possession of what he had on him will not be one of them and thus would just destroy what he had on him).
I can't remember now what Bix died from - may have been drinking, but I could've swore that Rose said something about not having had the time to prepare him properly because his death was sudden; I don't know why but I took it to mean he was murdered or committed suicide rather than that he died of an illness or anything prolonged. I suppose he could've died of alcohol poisoning and that could've been sudden... but I didn't get the impression that was it. Course I could be very wrong. But had it been a suicide thing then it could explain why he'd tell Rose just because they can come back doesn't mean they should - because if he was depressed enough to want to die he certainly wouldn't be happy to have been brought back against his wishes.
If the guy in the jail cell said the line for sure then I think we can assume he's one of them but probably isn't fully in control and that's why he was a little "off".
We learn what the Qui Reverti did to Marcus as punishment for his bringing too much attention to them. He was entombed alive inside a brick wall! Richard took one brick away and imprinted the trigger on Marcus before replacing the brick. Marcus/Madison remember and experience it all again. Jack confronts Marcus/Madison and Marcus tells him what the Qui Reverti did to him. That Rose screwed them both so he wants to kill her. That killing is who he is. Marcus convinces Jack to break part of the brick wall revealing his body. Jack tells Marcus to stay where he is but Marcus stabs him and runs off.
Jack sets fire to the Qui Reverti headquarters. Richard helps Rose escape the fire. Jack escapes the fire and so does Marcus. Once outside the building Madison's parents are there. Madison recognizes them and runs towards them . Richard tries to shoot Marcus but Jack jumps in front of him and knocks him down to the ground! The blow kills Marcus/Madison. We see Marcus and Madison in limbo. Marcus says the only way that a body can get rid of a soul is at the time of death. He tells Madison that this is that time for her. He says his will is stronger, that he's going back and she's staying there. That from where they are there is no going back. Madison tells Marcus that he's lived a few thousand lives but hasn't learned anything. That there's nothing stronger than a kid who wants to be with their Mom and Dad. "What goes around stays right here. " Madison comes back and Marcus stays.
Richard tends to Rose's arm wound. She asks why he brought Marcus back. He tells her he needed the money to look after his brother and to run away with Amy. They go looking for Bix but he's gone. Amy thinks someone took him but Richard thinks Bix just left.
The detective interrogates Jack in the hospital. Telling him about what he found strapped to Gary. Jack tells him that Gary was crazy. Jack asks about Madison and the detective says she's down in the children's ward. That she's saying that a man took her over. The detective agrees to come with Jack to see Madison as there are guards outside her room. The detective asks if Jack saw Marcus Fox down there. Jack tells him the people who would know escaped. The detective says they escaped along with his wife. Jack says he's not his wife. The detective says he won't stop until he knows Marcus Fox is gone.
The detective takes Jack to see Madison. Madison's parents thank Jack for saving their daughter. Madison tells Jack Marcus is gone. Jack asks her how she knows he's gone. Madison's parents make him leave saying she needs her rest. As Jack is leaving the children's ward a young boy in a wheelchair beckons him over. In Spanish the kid says that he will take his revenge from the other side and does the the steeple symbol with his fingers. It's exactly what the Mexican thug did and said when Jack shot him.
Jack goes back home. Picks up the Eiffel Tower statue he gave Amy for her birthday remembering that night. He calls Gary's family telling them not to believe what they hear about Gary and that he's very sorry for their loss. Jack cleans up his house and Richard shows up with a gun. Jack asks Richard if he is there to kill hi, He tells him we Shepherds don't really kill anyone that they just put them out of the game for a while. Jack says because we don't die. Richard hands Jack a box of Qui Reverti 9 cards and tells him what he learned working for them and what Jack will learn is that there is no end. Richard wants Jack to work for the Qui Reverti.
First off - really good finale and I hope it's just a season finale and not a series finale (since BBCAmerica has yet to say if the show's been renewed - but I really do hope it is, and I didn't think I would necessarily have said that earlier in the season).
I'm glad they gave us some context to Rose and Bix at the beginning and all - but given that Bix was not seen again in the finale and only mentioned in the end when he was not in the hotel room, it felt like it maybe should've been a part of the episode in which Bix was located or something. I guess he really did die just from alcohol toxication or something to that effect? At the point when he was sick on the bed I actually thought he was going through withdrawal but I didn't expect him to die at that point. Apparently his trigger was the mouthpiece from his trumpet - when it was shown to him in his new body I thought it looked like a chess piece! It was like she realized then that he was ailing and she just willed him to die because she knew she could make him come back, but I got the impression even in his original form, Rose was far more in love with Bix than he was with her and that he maybe suffered from some form of depression and that was still present in him even when he was brought back. I wonder if (assuming there's a 2nd season) we'll find Bix again and revisit his issues and whether Rose will convince him to fight to live again or if he will allow the other soul within the body to have it back or something...
Speaking of souls in bodies - the Marcus/Madison showdown in limbo made me think to that adding 9 bit from the numerology stuff I posted. It sounds like we have our answer as to how an original soul can take back their own bodies from the Qui Reverti - be on the precipice of death and duke it out for supremacy. Lucky that Madison nearly died near her parents because her will was stronger then. Course now being Marcus free she won't have much to add to the show unless she shares what she's learned with someone like Jack.
The last scene when Richard showed up at Jack's house - was it just me who thought during that conversation that the box wasn't going to contain cards but rather a trigger? I mean, the way they were talking I started to think the only reason Jack would've been kept alive would've been if they knew one of their members was dormant within him. I was thinking "don't open the box Jack!" because I was worried it'd turn out Jack would lose himself to some other soul... the making him into a Shepherd thing is an interesting angle, but why would Rose want him? It's not like he follows orders well or keeps his nose out of things. She'd basically be getting another Richard. And at this point does she even trust Richard, let alone Jack? The guy just torched their headquarters and she wants to bring him into the fold? However many members cannot return now because their triggers are destroyed... that was odd to me. But as much as Rose claims Amy is gone, her long look at Jack before she got into the waiting car was telling....
Speaking of Amy, one thing that I think they may have messed up on continuity-wise is that Rose was present and responsible for burying Marcus alive behind the brick wall 9/10 years prior but Rose was supposedly only recently triggered, so how was she there for that? Was Rose fighting for control over Amy before she was actually triggered? Was Amy a part of QR before Rose took over her body? Is that why Amy was so willing to let Rose take over - because she knew Rose was within her? I suppose it's plausible she was aware of some things involving QR because she had worked with Crane and had dealings with other QR members while she was still Amy and that's how Gary knew she was connected. But Marcus pinned the blame squarely on Rose not Amy. Surely he would know the difference?
Was it just me who got a kick out of them suggesting several famous people were QR?
Was that Eiffel Tower statue that Jack gave to Amy perhaps the trigger for Rose to come out and he didn't even realize it? Or was it just coincidence he was taking note of it again as he called Gary's family?
Oh and the kid in the hospital doing the gang sign and telling Jack he'll have his revenge - clearly the thug he killed, but how long ago did he kill the guy that he'd be back in an adolescent child? And what trigger could he have possibly had since the last thing he saw was Jack - or is Jack his trigger? Can people be triggers? THAT is an interesting question I hope they can answer in a second season.
I agree that Rose's love is stronger for Bix than his love for her. It does seem like he suffers from depression. I hope that they explore Bix's issues more in season 2. It seems like Bix doesn't want to live again so I'm surprised he hasn't already given back control to the original soul in the body.
You're right there's not much Madison could add into the show for a 2nd season unless she shares what she knows with Jack. I will miss her character if she's not in the 2nd season even for a smaller part.
I thought that the box was going to contain a trigger as well so I didn't want Jack to open the box. I'm not sure why Rose would want to make Jack a Shepherd unless it was Amy's decision. Maybe that long look at Jack before getting into the car was a sign that Amy is still there.
I'm not sure how Rose/Amy could have there to give the order for Marcus to be buried alive behind the brick wall. Maybe Amy was involved in the Qui Reverti. Since Rose was only recently triggered. I don't think that there can be more than one extra soul in a body at the same time. I think Marcus would know the difference between Rose and Amy too. Could it be a continuity error? Hopefully we will find out more next season.
I did enjoy knowing that there were so many famous people in the Qui Reverti. No wonder they have so much influence!
The Eiffel Tower could have been Rose's trigger because they never did show Rose's trigger. I think though that Jack was just thinking back to what it was like at Amy's birthday party before Rose was triggered.
I don't think people are triggers. Maybe the thug had been triggered much earlier. The thug personality must have been Qui Reverti because how would he know that he could come back for his revenge? I hope that they can answer this question in the next season as well.
I assume Madison was meant to be a one season main character and any additional screen time she gets would really only be possibly with her telling Jack what she knows about Marcus and the QR or if Richard was checking in to make sure Marcus is good and gone. Mind you, I doubt her parents would allow Richard anywhere near her since he lied to them about who he was, but they probably would let Jack see her and Richard can always watch her from afar.
I'm just as curious about whether Jack becomes a Shepherd as I am about Rose's decision to invite Jack to be one. I mean, in the end with him burning down their headquarters and all it contained, it seemed a bit like a sign to Rose that if he can't get Amy back then he'd do what he could to take them all down for destroying his marriage, killing his child, and basically ruining his life. Perhaps for both ends it's a matter of keeping your friends close and your enemies closer...? Maybe, if Jack does talk to Madison too and learns from her just how he can try to get Amy back, maybe he will agree to the proposition as a way to get closer to Rose to allow Amy the chance to defeat her from within. Course, it's a big gamble if on the verge of death Amy, already having given over control at this point, decides not to fight back and lets Rose have the body to herself. But surely the intent when all is said and done would be some sort of happy ending (like with Madison returning virtually unscathed to her parents) so surely the endgame must be to have Jack reunite with Amy. At least I would think that would be the case...
I think the whole Rose or Amy being present when Marcus was bricked up thing must be a continuity error because you're right, Marcus ought to have known the difference between the two. Then again, it's possible since Amy worked for the company that dealt with QR and was involved with several dealings and her name was on some deeds and what not, perhaps she was involved long before Rose officially came out; maybe there was some deal struck that if Amy allowed Rose to come out from time to time the QR would allow her to come back or at least reunite with Jack and their baby on the other side. It's also possible that while they seemed to indicate that Rose was only triggered at the most recent birthday Amy had, that maybe she was actually triggered 9 years prior but Amy had only finally given over full control at that point? I'm not sure. I think right now we just go with continuity error.
I don't recall how far back they had claimed that incident occurred with the thug, do you? I was thinking it was only like maybe 3 years prior or something like that which would make it impossible for that kid in the hospital to be the same soul... unless they are now going to tell us they don't attach to new bodies upon birth but rather at any time they sense a weak soul they can overtake or something? Perhaps another continuity error they hoped no one would think in depth about because they just figured the impact of the interaction would negate any questions about it..
I do hope they renew this show... and soon too. I don't know how well it did numbers wise or whether they're waiting for pickup in other countries to see if it's viable for another season or what, but I hope they do give it another go because there are a lot of questions to answer and a lot of storyline left to play out.