Interesting...I've never heard of this before... I think a lot has changed in the last 50 years.... We've gone (as we talked about in another post) from not enough rules to the other extreme

When I was young if a woman was raped (and it happened way to often) the woman was put on trial basically for her own rape

I went to for a 'girls weekend' a few years ago and there were 8 of us from all different walks of life... Somehow we started discussing sexual abuse in childhood and every one of us had been sexually abused to some extent...It was very telling..

I think some changes needed to be made however that doesn't mean for a moment that I think men are all abusers by any means....I don't know how to find that middle ground..... I think the rules are put into place due to that offender that might be out there... however that doesn't mean that I think men are abusive...I don't..

What do you think rew??

I do think there needs to be some reigning in of extreme thinking... I think that, that's what's happened re a number of 'ism's'... Racism, stigmatism etc..

We've gone from one extreme to the other in our thinking.... However I'm not sure how to achieve it... I don't think the Western legal system works much of the time... It's based (I believe) on good lawyering and if you can't afford a great lawyer the innocent can sink.. add a journalist that wants a grand story as opposed to the truth and it can sink an innocent person

I've watched programs on legal systems around the world and we have about the best I think and that isn't saying much... Unfortunately it's not based on truth or what's just

Jan,

I think each gender can be abusive, but in different ways.

Men have far too much testosterone for their own good and some men tend to physically abuse women sometimes. It was even worse years ago when the men knew they could do it and get away with it.

Women have had to endure tremendous inequalities in this country in the past. Hell, they could not even vote until 1920. The 1950's attitude was to keep them "dumb, barefoot, and pregnant." That was wrong and things have changed for the better.

While men abuse women physically, women can abuse men emotionally by doing some terrible things to them. I have seen seemingly normal women turn into rabid dogs during a divorce and even falsely accuse the husband of sexually abusing their kids to get an edge.

One of the problems now is that the pendulum has swung to the other side and some women know the key to their winning is to accuse a man of some sexual misconduct. Even an accusation is almost a death knoll and a conviction practically means his life is over. It makes it worse when you consider that some of these convictions are possible without any evidence; it is just the man's word against the woman's.

There are some things that can be done to help all these problems.

From a criminal justice standpoint, here is what needs to be done in this country----------1) the age of consent for all states needs to be lowered to 16 years of age. A young lady 16 years old knows exactly what she is doing and is just as much responsible as the other person. This will stop a lot of nonsense in this country where a 19 year old young man's life is ruined because he had sex with a 16 year old girlfriend.

2) the child porn laws need to be changed. Now, if a young lady comes out of the shower and a boyfriend snaps a picture of her with a towel around her waist, he can be convicted of production of child porn. Or if he sends a picture of himself, he can be convicted of distribution of child porn. They have criminalized normal conduct between teens and that is just stupid. Teens are teens and they have been looking at each other's bodies for centuries. The idea that it deserves a lifetime of sex offender registration is insane.

3) Women need to know and understand that if they commit the same sex crime as a man, they can be assured of receiving the same penalty. Equality has its good points and its bad points. If they want to be equal, then let's allow them to be equal as far as the criminal justice system is concerned.

4) To stop some of the false accusations women make, we need to enact laws against this. If a woman is proven to have concocted a story of a man raping her and the prosecution can prove it is false, then she needs to spend the same amount of time in prison for lying as if he would if he had been convicted. No exceptions.

5) We have too many crimes that are felonies in this country. The problem with felonies is that they will follow a person the rest of their life and affect his quality of living. A young kid with a conviction for a hot check should not continue to be punished when he is sixty years old. That is stupid.

So here is what needs to be done. Do one of two things----a) change some of the crimes from felonies to misdemeanors so that this lifetime stigma will not be a problem. No, I am not referring to violent crimes, but crimes less serious. The problem now is that too many of our crimes are classified as "violent" crimes or b) Have a procedure in place so that an offender can get the felony dropped to a lower charge after a period of good conduct in the community. This would be an incentive for he or she to be a model citizen and would prevent the 20 year old offender from having a felony on his record when he was 60 years old.

At some point, we have to forgive these people for what they have done.

6) DAs should be appointed, not elected. They don't need to be politicians just looking to have a high conviction rate so they can be re-elected, but people who want true justice in our system. Presently, we don't have that. If you take the re-election incentive out of the equations, the cases in which DAs hide evidence and cause some of these injustice will be reduced.

7) The state or government should not be able retry----get another "bite at the apple"-----in the case of a hung jury. If they cannot convict the first time, then the case is over. If we allow the prosecution to keep retrying defendants over and over after the first jury could not decide and was hung, here is what invariably happens-----the prosecution will keep trying the case until the defendant runs out of money for an attorney OR they will keep the prosecution going, knowing that at some point they will get a jury that will indeed give them the conviction they wanted.

I have many other ideas, but this is a few.

Injustices are allowed because someone is profiting from them. It may be revenge, power, or for financial gain. Injustice will never stop because the people in charge of this country are human beings with all their frailties that humans have-----greed, lust for power, and evilness. But we can fight against these injustices and keep them at a minimum.

There is absolutely no valid reasons that some to the ideas I put forth cannot be enacted into law, but they probably never will. Why? Someone always profits off the misfortune and injustices of others, so they will fight to resist any change AND my suggestions make too much sense.

Just my two cents----actually three cents. ha ha

rewdiazepam

I think you have some great and well thought out ideas rew.... I agree that false allegations should be treated VERY harshly... This is how I've seen things swing far too far to the other extreme..

I don't know that I agree that the age of 16 should be the age of consent due to immaturity and the brain not being fully developed thus as well though neither is a 19 year old brain.... Perhaps the law should also apply to the 16 year old so if she gave consent to something illegal there would be responsibility on both sides....I don't agree that it's rape though.... However perhaps some form of therapy, volunteer work etc..

I agree that if women commit sexual assault on a minor it has to be treated differently... It's often treated as almost a joke... Women teachers have been in the forefront of this in recent years and it should come down to the same punishment for the same crime

The DA that I know most about was Harry Connick and he was a very corrupt politician ... Law often seems like a game with winners and losers... I don't know how it can be addressed as what it should be as opposed to a game

Sorry I wrote has to be treated differently... I meant it should be treated the same as if a man committed this crime

Jan,

You said, "I don't know that I agree that the age of 16 should be the age of consent due to immaturity and the brain not being fully developed thus as well though neither is a 19 year old brain...."

Point well taken BUT. BUT, BUT think about this-----if a 16 year old, you know the same 16 year old that you say is immature and whose brain is not fully developed, commits a horrendous crime, WHY IS HE TRIED AS AN ADULT???????????????????????????????? Do we want someone who cannot think as an adult, with an underdeveloped brain, to face the death penalty for murder? That has happened.

If he is immature with an underdeveloped brain, then he should not be held as accountable to the same degree as an adult. Would you not agree with that? Then why charge him as an adult. That does not make a lot of sense to me. Pure hypocrisy and it make the criminal justice system in this country look very unfair.

Not trying to argue with you Jan, but just wanting some clarification and HOW you feel about this.

The prosecution cannot have it both ways and still have credibility with me.

rewdiazepam

Jan,

Another zany situation that our insane laws have been responsible for are situations such as this------ There have been cases in which two teenagers have engaged in some kind of sexual activity and BOTH have been charged and place on the sex offender registry. BOTH.

There also have been many instances in which a 19 or 20 year old young man had sex with his 15 or 16 year old girlfriend and then married her. He was still charged and placed on the sex offender registry because the crime was committed before they were married. So he is on the registry with a felony conviction for having sex with his wife a few months before they were married.

How crazy is that? Crazy laws lead to crazy circumstance.

rewdiazepam

More to maintain fairness in our country as far as the criminal justice system is concerned.

1) Change the definition of child pornography. Presently, any photo with an image of a naked person under the age of 18 is legally classified as pornography. That age needs to be lowered drastically. A picture of a 14, 15, or 16 year old girl just standing there is not child pornography. It is a picture of an underage child, not child pornography.

These silly laws we have lead to unintended consequences and more silly circumstances. For instance, regarding the child pornography issue of which I just spoke: If a young man lives in a state with the Age of Consent of 16, he can legally have consensual sex with a 16 year old young lady. BUT if he had a photo of her, he is guilty of possession of child pornography since the federal definition of child pornography includes any person under the age of 18. The federal mandatory minimum of both receipt or distribution of child pornography is five years in federal prison.

He can touch a girl, put his hand who-knows-where, have sex with her for eight hours and it is fine, BUT if he has a picture, he goes to jail. What an idiotic situation.

2) These solicitations cases in which a young man is convicted of soliciting an underage girl over the Internet need to be addressed also. Presently, law enforcement can place an ad on an ADULT site----which bans anyone under the age of 18----to attract these guys. That should be stopped. If a guy is looking at Craig's list for a date and the ad is in the ADULT section, then it is obvious that he is not trolling for underage kids to entice. That is just common sense.

But they place these alluring ads on adult sites. Then they make the guy believe all along----until the very end----that he is talking to an adult. After they get him all worked up, then they tell him the other age. And guess what? There is no real child----it is an undercover cop. And to make matters worse, sometimes they send the guy a picture of the underage female cop and tell him that is who he is soliciting . The damn picture looks NOTHING---absolutely NOTHING----like a 14 year old, so he just goes to the meeting place to find out. Bingo!!! Arrested. What a mess.

3) If a girl misrepresents her age and the defense can prove it, then that needs to be taken into consideration. If, for example, a young lady tells a guy she is 18 years old and after having sex, he finds out she is 15 years old, the charges should not be filed. In fact, make it illegal to file charges in those circumstances. The young lady misrepresented herself. What is a guy supposed to do? Ask for a birth certificate of every one he meets? Polygraphs on a date anyone???

I have more but that is enough for today.

rewdiazepam

Jan,

You said, "I don't know that I agree that the age of 16 should be the age of consent due to immaturity and the brain not being fully developed thus as well though neither is a 19 year old brain...."

Point well taken BUT. BUT, BUT think about this-----if a 16 year old, you know the same 16 year old that you say is immature and whose brain is not fully developed, commits a horrendous crime, WHY IS HE TRIED AS AN ADULT???????????????????????????????? Do we want someone who cannot think as an adult, with an underdeveloped brain, to face the death penalty for murder? That has happened.

If he is immature with an underdeveloped brain, then he should not be held as accountable to the same degree as an adult. Would you not agree with that? Then why charge him as an adult. That does not make a lot of sense to me. Pure hypocrisy and it make the criminal justice system in this country look very unfair.

Not trying to argue with you Jan, but just wanting some clarification and HOW you feel about this.

The prosecution cannot have it both ways and still have credibility with me.

rewdiazepam

I think there should be massive changes in the criminal justice system and the prison system... It's set up to fail...
I don't think kids should be on trial as adults... I think the mental health system should be more involved in so far as assessing and treating people more medically....I do think there needs to be consequences to actions however I think having them based on succeeding in life would be a wonderful thing.. I would love to see prison reform...
Having said that I have worked with people that do need to be kept out of society due to being too dangerous however they should still be treated with dignity and kindness
I don't believe anyone should EVER face the death penalty... Stating murder is wrong...the most heinous crime there is and solving the problem by murder makes no sense in my mind....Not to mention the many wrongful convictions that are overturned on death row inmates should have had it thrown out as a penalty long ago...I'm thankful that we don't have it

I don't have a issue with the age of consent being 16 it is hear. But we have pretty good sex ed classes as well so the teenage get a bit of a idea as to what can happen.
In Australia we have less and less men teachers due to the fact that it's way to easy to accuse someone of something.
I also think people need to realize that both sexes can be abusive and yes there needs to be more education and if someone has to be punished then it should be the same for both sexes not just a slap on the wrist if they happen to be female.

Age of consent...16, 18, 21... should not be a measure of standard for legal purposes.

The real reason it is used as a measure of standard is to allow legal consequences to be placed upon young adults, teenagers, and combining the public connection with private events. When the village provides a positive avenue for appropriate connections equally for all present, this problem is resolved quietly, with the elders giving a positive reminder to the young ones for choices available.


An accusation stands valid, whether or not it is unfounded, unproven, and the social public consequences are immediate and long-term.

I put it this way to help a friend decide (without any personal or identifying details) whether the accuser was male or female and the same for the accused. ...You can guess how the conversation moved to "men vs. women" and I said there are women who identify closely to male traits, and there are men who identify closely to female traits.

I'm glad you opened this topic up. It's interesting to share views, to expand our horizons to help others understand the huge divide between personal and public awareness.

I honestly do not see society changing its view on men any time soon. Western culture is just extremely misandrist and it's so engrained in society that most people never seem to notice it.

Anyone (be it man or woman) who tries to speak out about it these days is labeled all sorts of horrible things and dismissed as hating women and/or wanting to "oppress" women. In some cases speaking up about this matter will get you and your loved ones death threats or even get your pets killed in retribution (such as what happened with Erin Pizzey).

SW,

I hear you, SW. The very same thing happens to people who work toward reform of the sex offender registry. People cannot seem to understand that we don't condone the crime, but the registry has so many problems and is such a burden to the family---who did nothing wrong---that it needs to be changed.

If you advocate for any change, you are automatically labeled "one of those perverts" or a "scum of the earth sex offender", etc. This is the type of name calling that ignorant people use because they have no intellectual argument---so they use words they know will startle.

rewdiazepam

Rew put it on the table, it happens to anyone who work to right the wrong of the system, particularly the "registry" which misleads the unknowing in it's name, purpose, and availability of incomplete, inaccurate, and non-existent information.

Startle works, and the more the media resources continue to expose the startle factor, the more it becomes less important.

I don't have any ideas for anyone else, just when I get called a name, I stand up and say thank you, you noticed. ...It works for me, and allows me an exit walk to remove myself from the situation for my well-being. It has resulted in better media resources for some people. It's not an answer.

Thank you again, rew, for opening up these topics. It gives me hope.