Study of the Bible Community Group
The Bible unfolds like literature, and we follow the instructions like marching orders. The last orders supersede the previous ones. So the New Covenant (Testament) gives the design of who we are, what we do, and how we meet. What do you see in it, that can help us live better?
Who was the real Jesus in the bible?
The Bible does not reveal Jesus as a God but as a man – albeit a special man because he was the son of God. He was though a man with the same ‘nature’ as all humans – that is to say a proneness to sin and being subject to death.
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, THE MAN Christ Jesus;” 1 Tim 2:5
“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took PART OF THE SAME; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death… ” Hebrews 2:14
“Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be MADE LIKE UNTO HIS BRETHEN… For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.” Heb 2:17-18
“For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in ALL POINTS TEMPTED LIKE AS WE ARE, yet without sin.” Hebrews 4:15
How could Jesus be tempted to sin against God if he was God? What would the point of been of speeding 40 days in the wilderness being tempted? These things simply do not make an sense unless we conclude that Jesus was a man, the son of God, and not God himself, having the same nature as other men but having been given the power, by God to overcome the temptations that came his way. In every temptation Jesus chose to do God’s will.
It is only through a correct belief and association with what Christ has done that we can have a hope of God removing our sin-prone natures and forgive us our transgressions.
“Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” Acts 4:10-12
“And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.” 1 Corinthians 15:17
Christ then is our representative. He is the one who performed God’s will perfectly and the one who we should seek to follow. It is only through association with his work we can have our sins forgiven and our nature removed.
“The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” John 1:29
He paid the ultimate price, he sacrificed himself that we might have opportunity of association with what he has done.
One of our hopes should be the return of our Lord.
The Bible does not reveal Jesus as a God but as a man – albeit a special man because he was the son of God. He was though a man with the same ‘nature’ as all humans – that is to say a proneness to sin and being subject to death.
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, THE MAN Christ Jesus;” 1 Tim 2:5
“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took PART OF THE SAME; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death… ” Hebrews 2:14
“Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be MADE LIKE UNTO HIS BRETHEN… For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.” Heb 2:17-18
“For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in ALL POINTS TEMPTED LIKE AS WE ARE, yet without sin.” Hebrews 4:15
How could Jesus be tempted to sin against God if he was God? What would the point of been of speeding 40 days in the wilderness being tempted? These things simply do not make an sense unless we conclude that Jesus was a man, the son of God, and not God himself, having the same nature as other men but having been given the power, by God to overcome the temptations that came his way. In every temptation Jesus chose to do God’s will.
It is only through a correct belief and association with what Christ has done that we can have a hope of God removing our sin-prone natures and forgive us our transgressions.
“Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” Acts 4:10-12
“And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.” 1 Corinthians 15:17
Christ then is our representative. He is the one who performed God’s will perfectly and the one who we should seek to follow. It is only through association with his work we can have our sins forgiven and our nature removed.
“The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” John 1:29
He paid the ultimate price, he sacrificed himself that we might have opportunity of association with what he has done.
One of our hopes should be the return of our Lord.
And the Elohim said, "Let us make man in our image". Who is the Elohim. You need to understand God manifestation my friend. God manifest in the angels. God manifest in Christ (His Son). God will someday be manifest in us. It is about God manifestation, not human salvation. Human salvation is a big part, but it's all about God. Understand who the Elohim is and you'll understand who is talking here.
....Jesus, the Son of God did or did not pre-exist creation?
....Is the Holy Spirit God?
....Jesus being the WORD of God......Can you enlighten me a bit to what this exactly means?....For I am aware that all things only exist; as God has spoken them into existence.
....Are you saying Jesus is not God?....
.....Or maybe you can explain to me how the Son is seated on the right side of God; yet also being God?
.....Where is the Holy Spirit then?
.....Or if he was not I AM; before an earth birth.....How can He do the works that He sees the Father do?....He was not seeing the works of the Father while walking the earth but before an earth birth He seen/sees/saw what the Father was doing......
1. Jesus did not pre-exist before creation. But he did in God's plans. He was the focal point of everything God had in mind.
2. The Holy Spirit is God. It comes from God.
3. I'm I saying Jesus is not God? Of course I am. He is not. God is the God of Jesus.
Can you also please give me a verse that Jesus chose the Apostles before the foundation of the world?
[How can He do the works that He sees the Father do?....He was not seeing the works of the Father while walking the earth but before an earth birth He seen/sees/saw what the Father was doing......]
Why does Jesus have to "see" the works of his Father to do the works? You have to remember, scripture tells us that Jesus is God manifest. God is working thru Jesus. Jesus knows what he has to do by God and the angels.
[He clearly explains to the Apostles that He chose them and that one of them was a devil......]
Yes, that's true. Good point. He knows who will betray him too. God is working thru Jesus, He gave him the power to do certain things and miracles. Remember in Acts 2? These are God's miracles done "thru" Jesus. God is working thru Jesus. His son. It's a beautiful thing isnt it?
.....When did Jesus exist?.....In the beginning.......How was creation made?......Through Him, and without Him; nothing was made.....( Therefore your testimony of Christ only starting an existence at earth birth is made 100% invalid by a man who hung with Christ.....)....John does know better than you or I.
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John 1v3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made". They are talking about God here. We also read in Isaiah, that God made everything, no one else did, God did.
[ When did Jesus exist?.....In the beginning.......How was creation made?......Through Him, and without Him; nothing was made.....( Therefore your testimony of Christ only starting an existence at earth birth is made 100% invalid by a man who hung with Christ.....)....]
1. When did Jesus exist? When he was born. But he was in the mind and plans of God at the beginning.
2. Thru Jesus everything was made. Yes, Jesus was in God's plans at the beginning.
3. My testimony holds true.
4. The man who hung with Christ?? Are you talking about the thief? Dont understand what your talking about. You dont mean God do you? God was in heaven when Jesus died. Remember?
.....I tell ya what.....If you can lay claim to God working with you in an equal manner as He has been working with me over the years; only then will I give such testimony an ear.....
.....Born into the Catholic church as my parents unknowingly were trying to kill me from birth.....
....Sexual abuse in grammar school by evil people caused brain damage at a young age.....
....Some form of pain and suffering has been upon me from birth.....
....1995 God gave me a vision of what was/ what is/ what was to be.....I saw the light of God in the vision, as I am fully aware all motives are not hidden in the least.....I also saw the darkness of satan and am fully aware of his evil.....This vision was way symbolic, thus, the full understanding of it could not be understood until the events already occurred.
....2000 An angel was sent to stop me getting car smashed by a drunk at an exact precise time in time....The point of God to me was to not worry, I have you covered.....
....2002....A restaurant that was an old church with steeple and all still there; the doors of the building opened in a perfect fashion; as to let me in......Within a few hours or days the meaning and message was simply understood.....The church which is not a church will open to me.....(Thus, your warring against me really should; if you have wisdom; make you pause a second.)
....2002-2006...A wave of understanding and truth came pouring in; as I spent nearly 3000 hours of study....
...2004-2006...Unable to properly stand firm; due to many factors, I was wavering on my God stance as a blade of grass wavers in the wind....However.....The truths I learned and knew to be fact I kept spreading to all I knew......This truth spreading caused massive disruption in my life as most placed me on the crazy list or a just do not listen to laugh.....
....2006...As was shown to me in 1995....Satan was furious with me and made a move to come at me to kill me.....Exactly as was shown to me in 1995 I ended up on my knees in prayer to God; as He refused to allow satan to kill me; however; he was allowed to dismantle my life.....I saw the spiritual realm open( as if a dimension that is jammed onto the physical realm peeled away and allowed me to see what was in occurance.) as demons and angels were locked in combat...Neither did any of them have wings nor look anything like the garbage images passed to us.....Satan looks exactly like a man; yet; looks like a sorcerer and does look blackened and wields potent occult type power.....My ex-wife due to being under the power of satan; never to believe anything I ever taught; landed me in the damn loony bin, whereas such truth telling is fully deemed out of the box of reality and onto pills that sickened me for many years I went....This IS satans kingdom and he was allowed to effectively shut me down in full for 6 years nearly....
....2012.....The time to awaken once again came ushering in......Satans dilluding power was removed; however workers of satan set up in specific places are keeping me locked up as if locked up in this sin flesh is not enough......Eventually; per God; I am to be set free and allowed to what He has deemed me to do from the beginning......
...2012.....The Holy Spirit was upon me for 4 days until I finally listened....The when and how satan pulled this massive delusion off was given.....Satan easily tricked Constantine and hardy Jewish based Christianity was very nearly fully dismantled as an (in the place of) was set up; causing God's people to be killed as the followers of ( the in the place of) have destroyed the world.....
.....No matter what pains and sufferings; no matter what dismantling of my life occurred; I have always re-stood up and started to fight again.....
.....If you can match up and place forth God working with you in such manners I will lend you an ear......I am however aware that there is only 1 other on this earth who has went through anything similar.....Where he is ....Is unknown to me.....Yet I am quite positive He must emit out of the other beast.......
.....If you cannot match up Israel...Then it would be wise of you to STOP mocking the Lord with false claims of a birth only starting when He entered the flesh......Because my truth and testimony is better and was not received from man but from God.....If I actually accept your truths then I am calling God a liar; as I would be placing the claims of a man above claims that God has thoroughly revealed to me......
.....You are actually standing below the Pharisees who they do not even deny the Lord's deity!
....But nope.....It was not meant to be as God had a whole slew of different plans for me......
....Very early on I was under a belief that all these preacher dudes running around and speaking in circles were God's men.....I already knew that God had chosen me so I figured I would end up like them....All raised up, cash flowing in, everyone calling me one of God's men; the whole 10 yards.....
.....All doors that could open leading to such a path were shut to me; one after the other......
.....Frustrated; but knowing a reason was at hand; it took me time to configure on the why.....
....After enough truth was given I did what I decided was in the best interest of all; tell the truths to others that God allowed me to know; as to reach out in hopes of moving people to the knowledge of God's salvation.......
.....It was a complete disaster.....My wife turned on my right quick denying all I said......Brought me in front of the Pharisee who married us in her Lutheran church.....( I challenge anyone to go in front of these dudes and just argue truths to them and see what happens....)....From that point forward; the unbeknownst to me inevitable life crash was already pre-ordained.....I went from a high standing to being laughed at.....My wife had no problem turning against me with claims of fighting against God......Every truth I told; which were indeed factual accounts; came right back at me 99% of the time as being impossible...
....All that I had was removed; and all I cared about was taken away during a 10 year span.....Even today I shake my head as a holy smokes; never fully seen this coming.....And the cause of my demise which God did allow to occur?...Was my preaching truths that God allowed me to understand.....( But today, I understand why the need for such a path had to be. And in the end this seeming demise will not be a demise at all but a hefty test to see if I was to fall away.....)
.....How many supposed lovers of God would after a removal of all things still not cease in still getting up from being totally knocked out and jump right back into the game?
...Israel, would you be willing to lose all things for standing on the side of God?.....Are you willing to march into satan's houses and go face to face with a pharisee? Will you teach real truths of God to people; even those closest to you; knowing full well in the end you WILL be made a laughing stock?
.....If you are willing DO IT THEN........Then come back to me; if you made it alive; and tell me again things about the kingdom and the Lord not being in existence before creation......
....Until you are..1) Willing...and...2) Actually do it......Then I will bend not one ear but two ears your way and allow you the chance to freely speak about what I deem coming from you at this point to be false and heinous teachings about MY Lord!
.....Until you DO these things.....I find that you are invalid.....Until you validate, I am not lending you an ear anymore!
No problem here my friend. But I"ve alread shown you the verses in scripture on what I"m talking about, esp. the Kingdom on earth. How can that be invalid. I know that it goes against your beliefs because you were told that your final resting place is in heaven.
What is your hope King? I know mine is much different that yours. MIne is the hope of Israel, like Paul and the apostles. I hope for a soon return of our Lord. I hope for immortalily and eternal life in the kingdom. That' s what I hope for. And it's all based on scripure. I know that I am a sinner and not worthy of anything, but by God's mercy and grace he can save people like us. Wonderful isnt it?
....My point is a worry or attempt at configuring HOW everything will be in the future is NOT fully given.....Therefore ALL claims to fully understand exactly what will be is a vain effort.......
.....Is it not written that no man knows what God has in store for those who love him?
....But you want me to believe you have all these answers that God HAS NOT fully revealed.....
....Thus, this argument is just fruitless guesstimations....
....And it will not matter what the future is unless God concludes you are deemed a part of it.....
[Thus, this argument is just fruitless guesstimations....]
King, no one is argueing. I think it's just you.... Everything is fine.
Have a good day.
logos: a word (as embodying an idea), a statement, a speech
Original Word: λγος, ου,
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: logos
Phonetic Spelling: (log'-os)
Short Definition: a word, speech, divine utterance, analogy
Definition: a word, speech, divine utterance, analogy.
Genesis 22:8
Abraham answered, “God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son.” And the two of them went on together.
IF you care to examine the Hebrew, you will find this translation slightly off. Its a matter of verb'adverb'noun' connection and translation to be able to read in a way that makes sense.
The best translation is actually: God will provide himself a lamb for the burnt offering," This allows the duality of meaning that the original text allows. The lamb of course is God's son.
Jesus is not a created being but the creator. IF HE is not the creator, well i got some problems with him. He can not be pure if He is not actually God because he does accept worship, and claims equality with God over and over. (Yes israel I know you disagree but saul understood and so did the jews, they tried to stone him for blasphemy...which is to say, he was claiming to be God like or to have qualities of Diety.) Theres alot more, ill just keep it simple tho.
From REvelation 5:11 Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. 12 In a loud voice they were saying: “Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!”
13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”
From Revelation 1;5 To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father —to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
(just a side note, this fits into the kingdom of God post, notice the past tense phrase, Has made us to be a kingdom)
John 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Matthew 2:11
And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.
Matthew 8:2
And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
Matthew 9:18
While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.
Matthew 14:33
Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
Matthew 15:25
Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
Matthew 28:17
And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted
Luke 24:52
And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:
I think you get the idea, people worshipped Jesus, problem is he didnt rebuke them. IF He wasnt God, He should have shouldnt he?
What does it say in revelation when John bowed down to the angel as if to worship? Revelation 19:10
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Deuteronomy 6:13
Worship the Lord your God. He is the only one you should serve.
Jesus even quoted that when satan tempted him and asked Jesus to worship him.
8 Jesus answered, "It is written, 'Worship the Lord your God. He is the only one you should serve.'
so this is a problem I see with your point of view. IT is a sin for a man to accept worship. IT is blasphemy for a man to equate himself with God.
looking forward to your explaination of these things israel
“The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel”
Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
Immanuel: "with us is God," the name of a child
Original Word:
Part of Speech: Proper Name Masculine
Transliteration: Immanuel
Phonetic Spelling: (im-maw-noo-ale')
Short Definition: Immanuel