Study of the Bible Community Group
The Bible unfolds like literature, and we follow the instructions like marching orders. The last orders supersede the previous ones. So the New Covenant (Testament) gives the design of who we are, what we do, and how we meet. What do you see in it, that can help us live better?
Who was the real Jesus in the bible?
The Bible does not reveal Jesus as a God but as a man – albeit a special man because he was the son of God. He was though a man with the same ‘nature’ as all humans – that is to say a proneness to sin and being subject to death.
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, THE MAN Christ Jesus;” 1 Tim 2:5
“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took PART OF THE SAME; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death… ” Hebrews 2:14
“Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be MADE LIKE UNTO HIS BRETHEN… For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.” Heb 2:17-18
“For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in ALL POINTS TEMPTED LIKE AS WE ARE, yet without sin.” Hebrews 4:15
How could Jesus be tempted to sin against God if he was God? What would the point of been of speeding 40 days in the wilderness being tempted? These things simply do not make an sense unless we conclude that Jesus was a man, the son of God, and not God himself, having the same nature as other men but having been given the power, by God to overcome the temptations that came his way. In every temptation Jesus chose to do God’s will.
It is only through a correct belief and association with what Christ has done that we can have a hope of God removing our sin-prone natures and forgive us our transgressions.
“Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” Acts 4:10-12
“And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.” 1 Corinthians 15:17
Christ then is our representative. He is the one who performed God’s will perfectly and the one who we should seek to follow. It is only through association with his work we can have our sins forgiven and our nature removed.
“The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” John 1:29
He paid the ultimate price, he sacrificed himself that we might have opportunity of association with what he has done.
One of our hopes should be the return of our Lord.
The Bible does not reveal Jesus as a God but as a man – albeit a special man because he was the son of God. He was though a man with the same ‘nature’ as all humans – that is to say a proneness to sin and being subject to death.
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, THE MAN Christ Jesus;” 1 Tim 2:5
“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took PART OF THE SAME; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death… ” Hebrews 2:14
“Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be MADE LIKE UNTO HIS BRETHEN… For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.” Heb 2:17-18
“For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in ALL POINTS TEMPTED LIKE AS WE ARE, yet without sin.” Hebrews 4:15
How could Jesus be tempted to sin against God if he was God? What would the point of been of speeding 40 days in the wilderness being tempted? These things simply do not make an sense unless we conclude that Jesus was a man, the son of God, and not God himself, having the same nature as other men but having been given the power, by God to overcome the temptations that came his way. In every temptation Jesus chose to do God’s will.
It is only through a correct belief and association with what Christ has done that we can have a hope of God removing our sin-prone natures and forgive us our transgressions.
“Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” Acts 4:10-12
“And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.” 1 Corinthians 15:17
Christ then is our representative. He is the one who performed God’s will perfectly and the one who we should seek to follow. It is only through association with his work we can have our sins forgiven and our nature removed.
“The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” John 1:29
He paid the ultimate price, he sacrificed himself that we might have opportunity of association with what he has done.
One of our hopes should be the return of our Lord.
....A removal from this place in the hands of evil men .......
.....I do not FULLY grasp how it is God is being explained and how He has been shown......Yet....Through him ALL things were created; therefore; before creation He was I AM!.....He is also the WORD of God.....We have the SPIRIT of God......And God the FATHER.....
.....And in Revelations....We have being explained 7 Spirits from the throne of God.......
.....I am not sure a full grasp of how such things are can be understood by us in our condition......
.....Believe what is written and do what it says.....What else can we do?
Plug this paragraph into Google, in verbatim and we see why the scentless apprentice needs to give no credit to the cloned mind of "Mother Cult Church". Plug this in....
"The Bible does not reveal Jesus as a God but as a man – albeit a special man because he was the son of God. He was though a man with the same ‘nature’ as all humans – that is to say a proneness to sin and being subject to death."
Why should I care?
Anyway, what you get is this site: http://www.the-gospel-truth.info/bible-teachings/jesus-christ-his-true-purpose-and-mission/
But what is it? Well, let's strip it down. http://www.the-gospel-truth.info/the-christadelphians/
I said NO ADVERTISING ON HERE! This is a stench in the nostrils of God! Not only for it's content, but for the sneaky, brainwashed way it was plagiarized/slipped in here.
[This is a stench in the nostrils of God! Not only for it's content, but for the sneaky, brainwashed way it was plagiarized/slipped in here.]
Wow.... Would you like me to go back on this board and bring up all of your posts that you used other peoples sites? Tom, you have alot of them!! So let's be nice and please stop the fighting and arguing and saying bad things about people. Ok?
....That exact site has some well put forth prophetic truths shown to prove out in history......However...A whole lot of wrong ones too......
.....The last time a conversation went from me to him or back is when I explained to him about how we ended up with the cross being used a symbol of God; when it started, who started it, and why it is completely un-acceptable......
....Some other site I got in a argument with someone was that dude kept on saying on that site that satan is not a literally being but means sin......Dude would not cease in a dis-belief of satan roaming the earth.....I even pointed out per his view that in Job.....God is arguing with sin and that sin is talking back to him is complete nonsense......But dude will not stop preaching of a no satan.....
.....Jesus cannot be ONLY a man.....Makes the whole New Testament invalid.....And denies His deity....Clearly the bible states He is the I AM.....And that creation through Him was made.....Nothing was made and created that was not done through Him.....
Let's start with Heb 4v15 "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin."
He had human nature; he shared every one of our sinful tendencies (Heb. 4:15), yet he overcame them by his commitment to God's ways and seeking His help to overcome sin. This God willingly gave, to the extent that "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself" through His very own Son (2 Cor. 5:19). God was working thru His son. The fact that Christ had to plead with God to save him from death rules out any possibility of him being God in person. After Christ's resurrection, death had "no more dominion over him" (Rom. 6:9), implying that beforehand....... it did.
He had to be Son of man in order to inherit the consequences of Adam's transgressions, a weak and mortal nature "prone to sin", so that he might condemn sin. He had to be tempted in all points like us and yet be sinless in order to be the Saviour. Sin could only be condemned by one possessing the same flesh with its tendency to sin. He put to death sin in the flesh on the cross. The perfect sacrific.
"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil" What has the power of death? It is sin. For the wages of sin is death. Jesus put to death a sin nature and is now glorified.
Heb 5v8 "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him," God suffers????? No, but a man does.
That's why he is a perfect representive (not subsitute) for us. He knows what we go thru in our lives. He went thru temptations just like us. If he was God, what would the point of that be?
[Jesus cannot be ONLY a man.....Makes the whole New Testament invalid.....]
No Tom. You say that because you believe in the trinity. And it doesnt make the NT invalid. That's awful to say that. You cannot be a God and a man at the same time.
And yes, God made the world with Jesus in mind. Yes. Scripture tells us in the OT that it was God alone that made everything.
.....Did Jesus not say that before Abraham was....I AM>>>>>>
.....Does not the bible say that THROUGH Him all things were made?
.....Did not His claim of Him and the Father being one not provoke the religious dudes of the day?
....John tries to explain this as He is the Word of God.......The Word of God made flesh and partook of what we deal with......
....What you are now saying is that Jesus was a mere man and could not be God.....This statement is 100% in opposition to not only the New Testament but Old......How was it that David and the Patriarchs called him Lord if he was not existing at that time?
.....How can you believe in something you have never seen?...You claim to believe in God but deny the Son.....Do you also deny the Holy Spirit?...Do you deny Revelations that 7 Spirits are coming forth from the throne of God??.......Are you calling Jesus a liar by saying His claim of being God was invalid?....Just because the understanding of something that it seems no one has been given a 100% full understanding of is difficult; does not mean you can now disrupt the whole basis of Faith......This false teaching deluge you are saying is improper.....You are NOT going to get anyone in this group to hold to such falsity.....You can preach it and teach it but no one in this group will buy it!
Ok, let's to into Samuel. Nathan tells David, "I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever."
Do you know what these verses are saying? I'll tell you. Nathan is telling David that someone will come from his seed in the future. God will be is Father and he shall be My son. He's also telling David that he will be resurrected to see his throne established again, forever. We DONT see a trinity here or a pre-existance of any sort. How come no one told David that this person was here at the beginning and will "again" come.
Ok, let's do the other verses. Very easy to explain.
"Before Abraham was, I am" Jesus is comfirming his pre-eminence, not pre-existence. He didn't say "before Abraham was, I was". He said I am. Abraham, to whom the gospel was preached, "saw" the day of Christ through the eye of faith. Christ was "foreordained before the foundation of the world, but manifest in these last times".
Remember? He was foreordained in the divine purpose, but not formed.
Jesus Christ was "God manifest in the flesh". As such, he was the expression of the divine character, "full of grace and truth", and became the "firstborn among many brethren". We even read that in Romans. Christ was the result of the word made flesh, not the originator of the divine plan. As he himself said, "I proceeded forth and came from God, neither came I of myself, but he sent me."
"I and my father are one". Jesus is telling us that he is one with the father in purpose and will. They are insync with each other. They think alike, they are one with one another.
Ever hear a husband and wife say that about each other? How they act and think alike? I think you have too.
Let's look at theses verses too.
"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me."
Sound familiar? It should.
We know that Jesus is NOT saying he's God because of what else he says.
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise."
"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."
"I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I."
And there you have it. Simple. God manifestion right there.
Shouldn't I be saying that to you?
...He is the Alpha and the Omega.....The beginning and the end.....
....What you are attempting to foul me up with is that this cannot be.....
.....How is it then that ALL of creation was made through Him; and He not pre-exist creation?
....Denying this is simply denying the whole Bible.....
....The WORD of God became flesh and dwelt among us......
....You are telling falsities by saying that He was only born( had his beginning) at earth birth.....( ALL CREATION WAS MADE THROUGH HIM!)...Thus, He preceded creation!
I'm not attempting to foul you up at all. I"m helping you to understand scripture. And I"m just quoting scripture. You already believe in the pre-existance of Christ, so you make verses fit your beliefs. What does the bible say about this subject?
What does "made thru him" mean to you?
John 1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
Why in the orginal text, "Word" is not in caps? Wow, that's strange.... That's because the translators put it there. And I guess I can explain it again.... The word "word" in Greek simply means, someone's thoughts, plans or reasons. And THAT was with God at the beginning. Jesus was in God's plans right from the beginning, BEFORE creation. It was made thru him. And then in verse 14 it says, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." This is saying that God's plans finally became real.
[The WORD of God became flesh and dwelt among us......]
I absolutely agree with you. Yes, God's plans did become real. It did become flesh and blood.
[You are telling falsities by saying that He was only born( had his beginning) at earth birth.....( ALL CREATION WAS MADE THROUGH HIM!)...Thus, He preceded creation! ]
No I'm not. Scripture tells us that he was born. He was also fordained before the beginning of time. It also tells us that we were too. Right?
We shouldnt just read the bible, we need to study it too. What is the context saying? What does other books of the bible tell us on that subject?
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
Hebrews 1:7,8
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.