Yes, they are adolescent. Just like teenagers, they are self centered and infatuated easily. My husband gets "cutesy" with other trans on IG and they all kind of flirt/support each other... "Oh girl! That is a cute top!", "Those heels are adorbs!", etc. I'm like... REALLY?! How old are you? So in my head not only do I want him to BE A MAN in his expression and clothing, I also want him to stop being a child!

And calling each other "sweetie" or "honey" and "you go girl!" Makes me wanna puke. I never talked like that, even when I was a teenager.

It would be interesting to take some kind of survey to find out what kind of things each of our spouses experienced in their younger lives. My husband was neglected, molested, and started doing hallucinogens by the time he was 15...forget about the pot and alcohol. His mom had him on anti-depressants starting at the age of 10. So he's all kinds of fucked up. But I am curious if anyone (spouses)else has had any abnormal experiences or were raised in a gender strict household or whatever. Were one of their parents narcissists? You know, things like that.
Any way...yeah, the way my husband acts sometimes is ridiculously childish and over the top girly. It's very stupid and not womanly at all.

Birdie, It's funny you should mention that as I have read there are many correlations between denied same sex orientation & TG, at least in the MTF zone. I was trying to tell my husband last week that TG has been linked to childhood trauma & he said he had none. Then he went on to tell me that he has simply felt this way since he was very young. His mother caught him dressing up in her clothes & wearing lipstick & she basically told him the next day to never do that again, never talk about it, it NEVER HAPPENED, with that look that mother's are famous for. He was 6. he then went on to tell me how his mother made him get 'boy" haircuts, really ugly ones & he wanted to have something other than a buzz cut so bad......guess what one of his "other fetishes" is? Forced haircut! I had no idea it was such a thing, but thru his online history, i saw so much evidence of this & it's obvious popularity. So how can what your overbearing, self righteous mother's punishments turn onto life altering target?

Plus, now i don't know WHO to be mad at, him or her!

Of course I told him to mention this to his "Gender Therapist" as it is extremely instrumental in his therapy & that she really needs to have all the pieces in order to help him. I doubt he'll mention any of it.

Lovelies, wow, yeah...that could be considered trauma.
It's things like that can alter our perception on so many things throughout our lives.
"Gender Therapists", from my experience, it's a load of crap. All they do is coddle and help a person transition. They have no intention of working on any other issues that could be part of the whole gender confusion.

So my husband was severely bullied through elementary and middle school. He and his parents aren't sure why. He wasn't feminine (at least, that's what everyone in his family says.) I'd say his childhood was normal and his parents (still married) were supportive though not particularly loving. Maybe a little overprotective but I tell you, his childhood was a hell of a lot better than mine. They are not happy of his current situation and are very angry and have even gone so far as to blame me for letting things progress as they have. Quite a nerve, huh?

If you ask him though, he says he was abused but he is referring to being bullied and I guess they are technically one in the same. He said he was never made to feel like he HAD to be a boy but it was assumed since he had a penis that he was a boy so that's what everyone went with and for good reason!

I'd saying being bullied in school is something, but I think there is an underlying gene, like with schizophrenia, that may never actually appear, but under the right(or wrong) circumstances, it does and now you have a narcissistic asshole who thinks he should have been a woman.

I agree with birdie, bullying is a rough one, but I don't know if that's enough of a trauma to flip someone's brain over to wanting to be the opposite sex, unless of course it was girls doing the bullying ;) Hell, weren't we all bullied at some point in school? I do think there may be some genetic link. My husband's father is also CD & was wealthy enough that he could travel on business/leisure to go out en femme & get his fix. He was not part of the generation of "I want it & so I should bloody have it" like this generation. I also suspect one of his brothers may have the same inclination. Looking at his family, I'd say it is definitely genetic. Until people are TRULY open to talking & comparing, including the spouses (in order to get a balanced view of the experience), we will never know. So far, everything is from THEIR viewpoint. How "unscientific" is that?!

I just don't understand how there are far more MTF than FTM Tg's. There is something in that! And I also don't understand the "trauma" relation to the disorder. I was abused throughout my childhood, hell, right thru adulthood, by my mother. It doesn't get more crucial a relationship than that, yet I'm not looking to completely swap out my gender to appease some alter ego, or escape my present ego. I do agree with the theory that it is more a deep psychological issue rather than a gender mismatch like those true transgender. The majority of mtf TG are hyper focused on the sissy, prissy, submissive, immature, youthful, overly sexualized fantasy of "womanhood". It's a caricature version of women & not based on even anyone in their own personal experience, so where the hell are they getting this vision from?

Damn, I'm so effed up after being alongside the narcissistic CD/TG hellride for decades that I don't know top from bottom, so what the heck do I know?!

I do know this: There is nothing wrong with someone deciding on ANY persona/gender/sexuality for themselves, as long as they are honest, genuine & respectful of potential partners and that it isn't putting anyone in harm. What I have a massive problem with is lying, cheating & manipulating someone else's life, liberties, spirit & sanity to aide & abet their own agenda. THAT is majorly fucked up & dark.

That's why I think there is something else going on there in the brain to explain this. Some kind of mental disorder or even just synapses firing wrong.
Weirdly, unfortunately, my ex-husband was a true blue narcissist. He acted in many of the same ways as my husband does now, but his "thing" was constantly trying some thing to new to prove that he could do it. He had numerous personalities(they weren't drastic shifts, just changes in clothing style and weird perspectives). I and his colleagues had no idea who we were dealing with on a given day. AND he had it rough growing up.
My point with talking about my ex, is that it is eerily the same thing except my husband now is putting all his focus on being a woman. There is this sense of "if I do this, people will accept me", which has plenty of undertones of narcissism. Some brain malfunction that makes this the go to for feeling better about themselves.
And jesus, Lovelies!! We need to write a book about all of this. This needs to come out.

I will tell you this...I don't think anyone should feel they need to change their gender to fit in the world and that is what every transgender person is doing. I think there is something wrong with that idea. BUT at the same time, I don't care if someone does it, as long as they aren't putting anyone else through the pain and torment. I understand why a lot of family members and friends stop being a part of a transgender's life; even if that person is single when they decide to transition, they are still narcissistic.
HRT is our biggest problem. It isn't safe, mentally or physically. They have finally admitted that even hrt in the form of birth control for women isn't good. There is a lot that is being pushed under the rug by people who are making a shit ton of profit off of these things.

You are so right lovelies! Mine keeps telling me that he's just acting like a teenage girl because he is just coming into his womanhood.....ugh! "Caricature version of a woman" is the perfect description. So stereotypical. I wonder if this is a trait that fades away after years of living as a woman? It would be interesting to talk to someone whose husband is further in the process or even "completed" it.

I mentioned some of this stuff to our couples therapist yesterday and she has been studying and dealing with people going through this for almost 20 years. It's hard for me to trust ANY professional at this point but she kept saying it's believed that it happens in the womb and it's not a mental illness and that most likely there is no underlying cause UNLESS it's something that just randomly happens to someone that has already established themselves in the gender in which they were born. Like it's an all of the sudden kind of thing. Which, it was all of the sudden for me but my husband says he's always felt strange and that something was wrong with him. His reasoning (or defense as I like to put it) for marrying me was that he thought he could live with it and he never expected it to get to the point where transitioning was his only option if he wanted to "survive." Like I'm supposed to feel bad for him......at this point right now, it's only anger and hurt.

You can tell your Fucking therapist that she is wrong. Goddamn it. I am so tired of the wrong information getting out. First, this whole, "in the womb" thing. The hypothesis is that there can be a "wash" of hormones that hits the brain that can alter the way a person feels about their gender. Bullfuckingshit. There is no conclusive evidence on this or any other hyped up "scientific" study. Every last one of the very few studies state that their findings are inconclusive and that transgenderism is most likely environmental.
Here is the other problem with all the studies done and ideas behind why....does make-up, the way you dress, the way you speak, the way your hair is, shave your legs, does any of that define you as a woman? So, why is that the most integral part of men thinking they are women revolves around those things? Women to men do the same thing with all the stereotypes of men.
Challenge your therapist. It is 100% complete bullshit to use that "wash in the womb" study.
I am really angry about this....

Because how society sees you apparently defines who you are.....ppffft. Not sure I'll ever understand. I asked her out curiosity. At this point, whatever the cause, I've lost my husband and I'm getting a divorce. He refuses additional psychological testing or trying to get a second opinion so as far as I'm concerned anything I do from now on is purely for my own curiosity. I'm two damn busy now, raising our two kids in as stable and normal environment as I possibly can. Honestly, I have a bit of regret for not putting these questions out there when this all started. Maybe if I did that before he started HRT things could have been different. But I don't blame myself. I was in shock and he took advantage of that and just moved right ahead with everything, leaving me in the dust.

And that's one of the many problems.....there aren't any resources out there that are accurate and we are told that we HAVE to accept this, so it is hard to begin looking into it when we are made to feel guilty for feeling anything other than unconditional support.

I want in on this conversation. You are talking about bad research and not enough research and writing a book about your perspectives and I want to encourage you. What you have each been through is horrible and I know very few professionals are paying attention. Look at your own conversations....you are still focused on the trans person in your past (or in your life). I am doing the research on people like you because I want others to be able to learn from you. I want to see a focus on the women who are tossed around while their husband (ex) becomes his "real" self. What about your authenticity! ? Some of you have shown an interest in interviewing with me for my research but then we never set a time to talk. I want to encourage you to interview anonymously with me over a phone call and let's produce something together. I have 16 interviews completed with other women in your situation. You are not alone but who would know ? I need more women willing to talk about their own experiences. Your story should be out there helping others. Help me do that. Send me a message.

birdie23, I agree with you 100%. If they feel like women, they wouldn't want to shave their legs/put on makeup/skirts/nylons/heels, etc... because we don't really WANT to put those things on, we too have to conform to social norms. Sometimes we do in order to look pretty, but ironically we do it to attract men.... So when these guys dress up like this, what are their intentions? Are they trying to attract men too? I still believe that a lot of it is a fantasy... they get to look at a "pretty" girl in the mirror, whom they are attracted to, and get to avoid responsibility of being a man. It's childish behavior, either way.