First, I relate to every single thing you are saying including the anniversary of our first kiss is Aug 14, 1976.
God that makes me sound old. lol sorry, I digress. From what you have said, you feel shut out because he says he doesn't know how to talk to you and so then you shut down. Guess he better learn if he wants your marriage because couples recovery is ALL about communication. A couple of suggestions for that are the book "The new Rules of Marriage" by Terrence Real. A couples therapist would be great but if that isn't possible then this next suggestion might not work either. RCA (Recovering Couples Anonymous. It is a group for couples who are on the verge of divorce. We have a very strong group in our area and my h looks forward to going every week...he pushes me along. They use the book "Open Hearts", a workbook for couples.. Have you all confided in anyone that could help with the kids? If not, it might be in your best interest to do so as a couple. If still not an option, www.recoverynation.com has a free couples program to work through together online.
I committed to a year also and during that year we mainly worked on ourselves thru our own therapists and our own group meetings and reading etc... I personally wanted to see if my h could stay sober and was serious about working recovery not just going to a meeting or a session but working it because he was a "sick puppy" as one psychiatrist said. At one year I started panicking and obsessing again thinking I had to make a decision on the marriage. Truth was I didn't but I didn't want to waste any more of my years to go live instead of this shit. But from what people who have done it and the literature if I went back out there and I didn't work on my issues, I would end up with another addict of some kind. At least I know the one I have so I comitted another 6 months. I must say the last two months have not been good and I have been ready to call it quits on more than one occasion. Our couples therapist got us through some of it. I felt better about our relationship 10 months ago! She said that's because we are working on harder issues and the curve is not always straight up and that we are very early in this process! OMG! She said average 3-5 years. I feel like that is a prison sentence....to even get to normal. I have an illness that has been really negatively affected and I have an urgency to move this because that is not as long as I am willing to wait to see improvement. But 6 months is really early and that is the rollercoaster stage. My therapist said I would know when to call it quits because I wouldn't be questioning myself. That has been my experience this last year and a half. I am committed to myself and the realtionship for now but I am not telling myself I don't have options. I do. (never felt that I did before)

I will get back to you tomorrow night. Hubby is pushing me into bed, as i have been on here for 2 hours already.....lol. So not ignoring this post, back tomorrow :)

I have to say so sorry that you are struggling with this and it is got you in a place of doudlt in every direction...Hugs Hugs Hugs.

I go by a golden rule that helps me make a number of good choice for myself.... When in doudt don't do anything. I seem to make the wrong choise when doing something i am not sure about. I put it on the back burner and stay focused(or try) on the things that I am sure about. I may set limits or some form of time line but when I am dealing with so much at one time I have to "slow my roll" step back leave town clear my head deal with all the thngs in life I am sure of. I get lost sometimes as everyone does not just us but I always seem to be like a cat...I always land on my feet no matter how many times you toss me in the air.
Like you there are days I long to just leave to run from all this but we aren't made up to be runners(lucky for our husbands) otherwise none of us would be on here we all would have grabbed our running shoes and ran. I think slowing my roll is what everyone says just a diffenert way of saying it " easy on yourself.

I think i can do the 3-5 years but not alone, not without understanding or being understood, not without proof, not without progress and not without search to the depth of both of us. I do think at some point if my husband is not doing the work it will simply be very clear that he and us are doing the samething over and over again expection a different result....craziness.

I think that the samethings will be talked about over and over and will end up with the samething happening again and again. The same words will be spoken the same out come and then all to happen again. I see this going on right now in our relationship and for me it gets old I go into to shut down mood like you. I start to think why bother he is going to say the samething, the same promise, it has even getting to the same amount of time all this takes place and still it will happen again then all the same words and the same promises wash rinse and repeat.

I gave my friends some very good advise throughout the years....
When they would come to with a problem and it was clear that they were not ready to leave I told them.... you just haven't taken enough yet go back home put up with this some more and you will get enough to leave you walk out without a tear in your eye no question you have done all you could do to fix this you will simply understand that the two of you couldn't fix your marriage and you will know it or you will stay. I am simply taking my own advise that I gave so many and did my self once or twice. This is so different now I never had ANY reason to doudt my husband he was good to me, never negleted me told me everyday how lucky he was never not wanted to have sex with me, told me everyday how he loved my azz and that I was beatiful, he was supported of me and my kids in everyway, we worked our issues out together and built a home for all of us together. I simply didn't know that he had an issue that kept him from being stable in a relationship he learned how to hide it so well and had help with his family in the ways to do it so after 30 years, 2 marriages later he learned to hide his second life from all and learned how to use others to keep it hidee. Trouble was he didn't bank on marrying a woman that was on her game independent, strong willed, smart, not a rug sweeper, had raised 4 kids/teens and saw through their lies once as it has been put on here " the gig is up". There is not room for bullshit, fakes or manipulating me. OH NO my kids were tried to do it and all at the same time so he is nothing to call out as long as I keep a clear and clean head see things for face value and understand the issues. He can only play me when I don't know that I need to be played. I needed to be played in order for him to act out or hold on to the effects emotionally that being a SA has cause him.
A therapist told my daughter of months of therapy and working with her " we are really sorry what happen to you and your mother has givne you all the support to help you but this is not an excuss to behave badly". I agree and it worked of my 8 year old and they say they are emoitional stuck ok but at some point just as my 8 year old had to understand her issue was not a hall pass to being bad so does he. So she learned how to talk how to work things out learned how to be honest and BEHAVE so will he. I will be there to help support him to help him see somethings he hasn't learn or needed to see but bad behavoir using serouis issues as an excuss is not the answer.

He will change one way or another ..... stop his addiction and emotional behavoir or he will change from being married to single. I am learning to trust in myself again to make sure that I get what I need(fl was so awesome this past weekend), I will not talk as much and listen to him, I will keep looking for new ways when the old ways don't work anymore. The thing that helps the most is MY ability to see what is REALLY going on and that takes me sitting back and watching more that acting but also to keep throwing other answers out there, other things to try and to see if he can go deep inside looking at himself not playing the blame game or poor pitiful me card. I will simple see that he can or he can't and I will know it. it wont even be talked about with anyone but a lawyer. This for me takes away from all the stress of the question, when is enough enough. I SIMPLY WILL KNOW!

And 2song: I have had the thoughts of hanging in the marriage for the financial aspects only too and live my own life. You are not alone there either. Trust me, we have to explore all of our options too. We have been victimized but dont have to remain victims.

Money isn't worth it. Kids don't benefit from it. I have only one life, and I'm responsible for it. I wasn't responsible for the way he chose to live his life. I was only responsible for the way I lived mine. I'm not responsible for what he does now either...only what I do. I can choose...and it is choose...to stay and see what it's worth with some huge changes on his part...or I can leave and forge an entirely different life on my own. Those were really the only two real choices.

I stayed to learn something, because I had no intention, nor would I ever, to get involved in another relationship again. Frankly, what did I have to lose at that point? Nothing much. Lost already! Either way, it's still my life and my decision to make. I gave him the chance to make some serious changes and see if I found the marriage of any worth at all after he did that (not before). And, if the changes weren't enough, and it didn't feel good enough to me, then there is only one choice for me...do whatever is most likely to lead to MY happiness.

I completely understand how you are feeling. You sound like you are in the 4th stage...Grief & Abivalence Stage.
http://www.dailystrength.org/groups/spouse-of-sexaholics/discussions/messages/7316331

It is true that they do say "Nothing major the first year".
http://www.dailystrength.org/groups/spouse-of-sexaholics/discussions/messages/9448441

However everyone is different, and every case is different. So I am afraid this can only be your judgement call at this point. Regarding my personal thoughts........I only advise on leaving a relationship when your life is in immediate danger, when your children life is in immediate danger, and when the trauma has effected your emotion health with damaging effect, such as suicidal thoughts.
Are you able to have some time out, or perhaps seek further therapy to work through your thoughts and feelings? Perhaps that could help you reach an informed decision, without worrying if you are acting in haste or acting on hurt feelings.
I have just come across a passage in one of my books. I will type it out tonight and repost as a new topic, for everyone.
Much strength babe xxxxx

Nicely said Help.

So, not acting on hurt feelings is the reason for the time frame of a year? Ok. Then does time unhurt the feelings magically? Does ones feelings change and if so why? And, I have great difficulty with....one should stay until their life is threatened, their children are threatened, or they are suicidal/ Why? Isn't unhappy enough? Is depressed not enough? Anxiety not enough? Nervous exhaustion not enough? That seems confusing to me. A good relationship is about staying until you're so depressed that you're suicidal? I don't think I want to stay that long. I have stayed that long once...in my first marriage...and that was a sheer waste of my young life. So, why is that a good choice? I don't understand.

I've been near the end of my rope so many times over the past year. I also went through a time of "using him" for the paycheck, the stability gained from having another person around. I've cried everytime Carrie Underwood's song "Temporary Home" comes on the radio because that's how I felt. Like this was just a temporary home for me until I was ready to move on.

RCA has really helped. I can't say that I've fully embraced the program... I still haven't figured out what exactly my wrongs were, what I'm supposed to be recovering from other than the pain he inflicted. But it's nice because we see other couples that have come back from the brink and I feel like he walks away with a better understanding that he has to WORK at this too. Work on our relationship, not just his recovery. I think he always saw that as my job before. He's been much more open and caring since we started with RCA, sweeter.

Grrly: I think I understand what you mean. But, I did figure out some things that I did wrong. Not did wrong to cause his porn behaviors. But what I did wrong that might have made a better marriage if it weren't for the porn behaviors. If I set that one thing aside...just for a while...to think about the remainder of the relationship, then I can see where I could have made a better marriage. And, where he could have too.

I think that's what they mean. It seems to me that it's like the psychs set aside the major issue and direct the SO to the other issues. Because we have NOTHING to do with the major issue, as they clearly say at the onset. And there is nothing we can do about that part of it. Nor was there ever.

So, rather than attempt to deal with what we can't deal with, they direct us to what we might do, if the other didn't exist or happen, to make a better marriage? Just my thoughts on that. So, if we can look at that...the marriage...without the sexual issues he brought into the relationship...then we CAN see what otherwise might make a better marriage?

When I looked at it that way, I could see where I could contribute something more to the marriage, IF I was able to set aside what had already happened. If not...then the point would be moot...but I would have learned something about how to contribute better to any close relationship?

So, then, if I was seeing that...what I might do to make a better relationship...for one year...while he got his s together...IF he quit the bull....then after a year it would be a better relationship? Couldn't hardly help but be if both are looking to improve it? So, looking at it that way...it makes a little more sense if the psychs are assuming that one can get over the hurt already in place.

I saw, looking at it that way, that I didn't attend the marriage as much as I could have. I was pretty much living my own life, and having very little interaction with him, for a very long time. I didn't talk to him much about anything. I didn't TRY to talk to him. He didn't seem to want to...so I ignored it too. If it ain't broke...don't fix it? So, I could have talked to him more. I do that now. So, talking was a weakness in the marriage, something I COULD contribute to.

I have never been one to enjoy conflict. I will avoid it as long as possible. Then, when I do get around to being annoyed enough to engage, I'm really PISSED! So, at that point, I'm not listening much at all, I'm TELLING whoever has my negative attention, what I AM going to do about their actions. I'm not asking for anything...I'm telling them what I am going to do. Not good. I should have voiced my irritations far earlier, and asked them to have a look at how I am feeling about what they are doing. Then, they get a chance to amend the action, before I take negative action. So, there's two...I could address my concerns early on, and discuss my feelings.

I could have told him what I felt was missing in our "romance" life. What romance looked like to me, and its importance to me. I didn't do that either. Because, he had already hurt me there before, and I figured, yeah right, romance...really...his thing with sex isn't romance...you already know that...so why be stupid. Well, I should have done it anyway, and insisted on having my needs met. I didn't. I should have. So, there's another lesson.

Also, when someone hurts me, my response is anger. Well, it should be, they hurt me. But, what they really need to know, and what I really need to know, is why the anger? What hurt? Do they know? Do I know? If neither does, how does one address what caused the anger? So, I can look for the why inside me, and say what hurt. Then, they can decide if they want to continue what hurts, or they can quit hurting me. So, address anger, something I CAN do.

Also, this late in marriage, there IS, no matter how good the marriage, a tendency to stalemate. I did know that. And I did attempt to always let him know that he was my man..that I was attracted to him...that I still wanted him. He didn't do that as much for me as he should have. Not sexually. So, when I felt the loss of feelings there, I should have told him. I didn't. So, there too....talk about needs...can't meet them if they're undisclosed.

See what I mean? So, yes I did learn some things that "I" could do to make a better marriage. A little late in the game. And, all of this matters not at all if he failed to stop what he was doing. He did do that...so then the plot thickens. Because then, the only thing that remained to do is for me to get past the hurt, where I felt I wanted to stay. Not that I SHOULD stay. Not that I COULD stay...but that I WANTED to stay. The hurt is the barrier to that decision.

So, I decided, after two years, that I wanted to stay. That means for me, that I have to live with the hurt. There is nothing I know of that can remove that. The hurt does prevent me from doing a lot of things that would make a better marriage. And, then all the trouble comes in...sexually...romantically...emotionally. And, that I know of at this time, there is no cure for that.

So, I have asked many times, some of these folks who express that they have a better marriage, what that means. What they worked on. Never an answer. To me, no answer...is an answer. And, as always, I'll figure it out myself. I have never had anyone to rely on that way. I've had to rely on me. And, I still do. Inside me, the hurt is there, and it has affects....on SOOOOO many things. I have to accept that hurt and live with it to live with him. And, some of it, even if I don't live with him anymore will always be there inside me.

If anyone knows a cure for that....please let me know. Because I can't see how that can ever go away. I really can't.

I understand that question too Sheen. I guess that after many years that their intimacy between the two of them is better than either could have imagined. That they are best friends and accept eachother and cherish eachother with all of their faults. That's my fantasy of the "promises" anyway. I don't embrace the past nor wish to shut the door on it. I wish it were different, wish I had been different, would never do it over if I had the chance. But that is not reality so I will try to learn to live with it the best way that I can.

Cyn: That's my analysis too. Can't undo it. So live within the existing paramenters.

well, I'm not sure exactly why it's said to not do any life changing events in the first year, but that's what I've been trying to do. I've tried therapy, reading books (in process of another round from amazon), journaling, even antidepressants which were also for panic attacks.

however, I am truly ashamed with how my emotions turned upon my body a few days ago. I should've called my therapist, or his. I should've called for help, but I didn't. I am ashamed, yet at the same time it's not affecting me as it should. I have to face this with my therapist, as I know H will tell his and his SA group. I caused myself bodily pain to help ease the mental pain, without any intentions on suicide though. I would NEVER leave my children intentionally.

now, H has to live with the reminder of the soon to be scar of the mental pain he caused me. I had to wake him up to get me out of that mode. I couldn't stop and I don't know why. I actually asked him to put me in a mental hospital, but he refused. I just went into somekind of other state of mind. I actually don't remember too much of it. I"ve been having trouble remembering anything anymore. But, I lost it.

I love this man, I truly do, however I hate what he had done, what he has done to us, and what he made me become because of the tremendous pain he's inflicted on me.

another time in my life there was a song that meant a great deal to me. I haven't heard it for years...many years. All of a sudden I've heard it twice over the last week...many other itmes in the last six months..."She talks to Angels" by the Black Crows.

I'm just trying to hold onto the notion that we have to give it a year. A year to get over the intial shock. A year to process what's happened and to process the pain that follows. A year to think about what life would be like if we stayed and what it would be like if we left. I have to give it a year

2Song: I know that pain and wanting so bad for it to stop any way it can. I have not gone to your extreme but have planned it out and thought about different things. I am better now. Are you still on antidepressants? And songs are definitely a trigger for me. I can't listen to Journey and many many more. Pictures are a trigger: before infidelity or after infidelity. Cities names that I know he acted out in. Trips we took just for the two of us and he was acting out ruins the memory TV mentions prostitutes and infidelity every couple of minutes. It does get better but you may need the right combination of meds. Also the memory thing is a symptom of trauma. And DO call people and DO talk to your therapist about it and DO NOT be ashamed. Feel guilty about the behavior if you want but that does not make you a bad person but a person crying out for help and in great pain. You are in survival mode.

thank you cynclaire...no, I'm not still on meds. I was only on them for the first couple initial "bad" weeks as my panic attacks were so bad, and he witnessed me having them too.

I am, as he is finding out the hard way how certain songs are "bad" for me. They either trigger down a bad road, or maintain me down it. Other times, I seek them out. Journey..yes, amongst others....

Pictures are a hit or miss it seems. I never know what will set me back into "that" time..either a time of fake happiness, a time right before I found out, or after I knew. It's all fake to me now.

There's a place that we both love to go to to play video games and have a couple drinks while the kids play the games. Can't even think of going back there now.

I got a coupon/ad in the mail under HIS name the other day, that he doesn't know about. I almost freaked out when I saw the pictures of the women wearing just bras

The memory thing is affecting my work as I waitress, and have to keep up on things, and such.... I actually thought about if I could collect disablilty from bipolar/ptsd...but highly doubtful.

thing being is this doesn't fully manifest itself till late at night, while everyone is asleep, and I've had all day or all week to think, but finally let my emotions run their course through my demented mind. That's where I go into an altered state of mind. At least, gratefully, and shamefully I had the sense to wake H up to try to shake me of this mental state. I do remember one point where I was screaming or crying to him, then ran away. I guess I locked myself in the bathroom. Next thing I knew he commented how white my face was. Then he and I saw why. I lost a LOT of blood. But, somehow, God was there, not for me, but for my babies, as HE knows I love them more than anything, and they need their mamma. I didn't survive that night because of H, but because of my children. I would never leave them intentionally, but I do remember how the physical pain gave a 'release' somehow to the emotional pain. I didn't feel so bad, and I couldn't feel the pain that I was inflicting upon myself. Even now, I have a bad wound trying to heal. I have to cover up with a bandage and try to conceal that from others.

He kisses me with such emotion, such intensity. I feel the warmth. I feel the love he's radiating. However, I am unable to process the emotions, unable to reciprocate. This action, this emotion is what I needed long before the betrayal. Long before I knew of the betrayals. If I wasn't happy with H before all of this, how does he expect me to be happy afterwards? If he can't live without me now, he should've realized that in the beginning...years ago...he had chances...

So, am I in the grief stage or surivival mode? I'm thinking I'm tired of this BS. I can't get the images out of my head, the thought process, the memories. Gonna write in the journal now.

I just want to know when others decide to call it quits. I know ppl have their "strikes" and they're out. I have them too. But, how do you know how much you can indure and move on together?