Spouses of Sexual Addicts. Community Group
"Hope & Freedom for Sexual Addicts & Their Partners" .......By Milton S Magness D.Min
Chapter 13
Page 171-176
When Is It Time To Move On?.............................
It is common during the addiction and in the recovery when spouses or partners wonder if it time to end the relationship. This deserves additional attention. It is tragic that many marriages are destroyed because of Sexual Addiction. However, the discovery of compulsive sexual behaviour need not mark the end to a relationship, even if the activity has involved other people and perhaps many. If the sexual addict is willing to get help and address the problem, the relationship can be saved and can thrive in recovery.
Some individuals have the mistaken belief that if their spouse or partner has been unfaithful that they must get a divorce. Unfaithfullness is devastating, and spouses believe the acting out will occur again, and again. Rather than look for a way out, couples can look for ways to stay in relationships and put the pieces back together.
Addictions often develop over a lifetime. They are behaviours reinforced by years of acting out and powerful neorochemical highs. Recovery for many people is a series of starts and stops, and resolutions followed by relapses. Rather than seeing recovery as a steady uphill progression, it is more like a roller coaster with its ups and downs, yet all the time moving forward.
If an individual is committed to a program of recovery, even if he is continueing to have setbacks, there is reason to hope that he may be able to get free from all compulsive behaviour and live the rest of his life in sexual integrity. Do you lose hope?
When The Sexual Addict Refuses Help..........................
What about relationships where sexual addicts are not willing to get help? If your partner admits to having a problem with compulsive sexual behaviour but refuses to address that problem, it is time to consider ending the relationship.
Sometimes when a partner sets this boundary and the addict is convinced of the seriousness of the boundary, he may realise his only choice to save the relationship is to get help for his addiction. I have numerous cases where divorce papers had been filed, only to stop to legal proceedings when the sexual addict decides to get help.
This does not suggest threats of divorce or abandonment are to be used to manipulate sexual addicts into recovery. When a spouse reaches the point where she is getting ready to end the relationship, the decision is often to persuade the sexual addict to seek immediate help.
What about cases where the addicts continue to slip or relapse? This may also be the time to consider ending the relationship. If that happens, it is important to recognize that the addict's decision to put the addiction ahead of his partner resulted in forfeiting the relationship.
No-one does recovery perfectly. Unfortunately, amny have slips and relapses that punctuate their recovery. If steps are taken to rectify the situation and restore good recovery routines, the relationship is worth salvaging. If the sexual addict is not willing to do the work of reocvery, even after repeated opportunities to get help, it may be time to end the relationship. Moving on may mean leaving your spouse or partner trapped in his addiction. Therefore, your partner must accept that you will no longer allow yourself to be trumatized by continued acting out.
If this is the place you find yourself and you have given your partner repeated chances to get into recovery, but he refused or will not maintain program of sobriety, then you may feel that he has chosen his addiction over you. Ending the relationship is a difficult decision and one that you should make only after much soul searching and consulting with professionals and trusted friends. Life without your partner will be challenging and perhaps painful, but ask yourself, wouldn't that pain be less than remaining in the relationship if your partner's acting out never ended?
Often the sexual addict will do everything possible to save the relationship, when he realizes that the spouse is ready to end it. If the shock of the partner saying the relationship is over gets an addict into recovery, then he can be grateful that something was stronger than the power of addiction, and that was coming face to face with the loss of you and the relationship.
The Relationship is Over. What Went Wrong?.......................
In some cases the relationship was over before the partner knew the extent of the sposues addiction. Or the sexual addict announced that he had found someone who "really knows how to love me" and walked away from the relationship without trying to save it. Abrupt endings are devastating and leave lasting wounds.
Some individuals who are sexually addicted never get into recovery and continue to resist all offers of recovery. Their partners set boundaries, give ultimations, make impassionate pleas, and otherwise beg their partner to get into recovery and give the relationship a chance. But they find that they are powerless over their partners addictions and cannot bring them to recovery.
In other cases, recovery is not constant with some addicts and they continue to suffer slips and relapses. they make promises that they will stop their destructive behvaiour, but it never sticks. After a few sessions of therapy and a 12 step meetings, they declare themselves 'cured' and stop all recovery actions. The repeated relapses finally bring partners to the point of saying "Enough!!"
There are other relationships where the husband and the wife get into recovery but the relationship still does not work. For some cases there was too great of an imbalance in recovery; that is, one partner was well ahead of the other and the other never caught up. In some of these relationships, even though recovery appears to be going well for both, they cannot make the relationship work. The wounds of deciet are sometimes too deep to heal. In some cases, one or both partners are unable to move to a place of acceptance as a prelude to forgiveness so that healing can begin. There are some spouses hurt so much that they can never get to a place of healing.
It really does not matter what finally happened becuase the relationship is over. Wishing, hoping, crying, and pleading will not restore that which has been severed. If your relationship has ended, here are a few things about your future that you need to hear:
First, don't date until you have continued further in your own recovery journey. YOu need time to make sense of your feelings and concentrate on yourself. NO "rebound" relationship will provide the nurturing you now need. If you are dating, STOP immediately. You deserve to have time to take care of yourself. Life is not going to pass you by while you are concentrating on giving yourself what you need.
Second, you need time to heal. If you are not in therapy at present, start therapy immediately. You will need to do some intensive family-of-origin work, to work on childhood wounds that may be impacting your life today. This would also be a good time to find an EMDR therapist who can help you address your trauma issues.
It is especially important that you get professional help to determine the impact of the relationship with your former partner. You may be able to see some similarities in your former partner and other people with whom you have had relationships. In fact, some individuals are candid enough to admit that they seem to always end up with someone who is an addict or someone who is abusive to them. Addicts are often charming, persuasive, and focused on the person who is the object of their affections. If you have chosen an addict of any variety in any or perhaps every previous relatiosnhip, this would be a good time to asl yourself, "What do I need to do to heal, and quit living the same traumatic realtionship repeatedly?"
If this is you, you alone can change the next chapter of your life. You are the author of your future. No matter how long you have let others tell you how to live your life, you are free now to assume control of the events in your life. You deserve a healthy relationship. Do not settle for less!
This would also be a good time for you to cement relationships with other men or women who are healing from relationships that have damaged their self esteem. 12-Step organizations are important sources of support to individuals who have found themselves alone after the end of a relationship to a sexual addict. Even if there is not a 12-Step group for partners in your area, Co-SA online groups can be very beneficial.
( Or lovely groups like this here on DS.....lol)
Chapter 14
Page 177-179
Adventure in Recovery.................................
In the course of their recovery journey, I tell my clients that they will be able to look at themselves in the mirror and say, "YOu are a good person, " and know in their hearts that the words are true. Negative self talk that has plagued them since childhood gradually end and will be replaced with healing words. I believe recovery is truely an adventure. In the end, sexual addicts have a much fuller, richer, more meaningful life than if they had not had compulsive behaviours to concur.
Sexual Addiction recovery can be an adventure. As with many adventures, recovering from sexual addiction never stops. It continues throughout life. Sexual addicts never get to a point where all of their recovery work is done. They continue to face new challenges and additional parts of their character upon which to focus. Yet as long as they are living free from compulsive behaviour their addiction is behind them. Their journey of freedom continues and never has to stop.
As you continue through the many tasks of recovery, you will find challenges and numerous blessings. As you and your partner take this journey together, you will have the opportunity to work on some things that would have escaped your notice if it were not for addiction and recovery. In the Big Book of Alcoholics, in the section referred to as "the promises", it states that there will come a time when a person will "not regret the past nor wish to shut this door on it." While this seems unattainable, it becomes reality for many. Perhaps it is more fully realized when a couple takes the recovery journey together.
Certainly there are hurts and pains from the past that bring grief. There are things that recovering addicts regret. That regret is shared by their partners. Addiction wounds both the addicted and those who love them. It is a vicious cycle that can only be served by making a committment to do the work necessary to end all compulsive behaviour forever.
Recovery has many rewards. One is the ability to look back on a relationship that has grown in many ways not thought possible. Being in relationship with a sexual addict has its down sides for sure. But if the partner is doing solid recovery work and actively engaged to his or her own work, the relationship possesses a new dimension of richness that could not have come were it not for addiction and recovery.
The presence of sexual addiction in a relationship does not mean that a relationship must end. Nor does it mean that happiness must end. If both addict and the partner are willing to address the addiction, work on thier individual recoveries, and recover as a couple, there is every reason to hope for a good outcome for the relationship.
I am committed to counselling because I see miracles happen on a daily basis. I continually come meet individuals and couples who believe their happiness is at an end becuase of the compulsive sexual behaviour. But relationships do not always have to end.
I am constantly amazed at the changes that can take place in relationships through solid recovery work. I hear couples who have been in recovery several months state their relationship is better now than it has ever been. I have heard that enough times that I have come to expect that result when both are committed to doing whatever it takes to restore their relationship.
My desire for you and your partner is that you immerse yourself in recovery. I urge you to be willing to do the couragous and challenging work that is required. As Francis Bacon once said, "All rising to a great place is by a winding stair."
May your recovery journey of hope lead you to freedom.
About the Author
Page 203
Milton S Magness, is the founder and director of Hope & Freedom Counselling Services in Houston. He is a Certified Sex Addiction Therapist (CSAT) and a Lisensed Professional Counselor.
Dr Magness is on the board of directors of The Society for the Advancement of Sexual Health (SASH), formerly known as the President of the board of that organization. He studied with Dr Patrick Carnes, the foremost authority on sexual addiction, and had completed specialized study in the area of cybersex addiction. Dr Magness has led a multi-state research study that focused on cybersex behaviour and recovery among self-identified sex addicts. he is a frequent speaker at both professional and public events.
Should you wish to contact Dr Magness with questions about this book or for information on Hope & Freedom Counselling, you may write to him at milton.magness@hopeandfreedom.com or contact at (713) 630-0111.
Dr Magness lives in Housten, Texas and Canmore, Alberta, Canada.
Chapter 13
Page 171-176
When Is It Time To Move On?.............................
It is common during the addiction and in the recovery when spouses or partners wonder if it time to end the relationship. This deserves additional attention. It is tragic that many marriages are destroyed because of Sexual Addiction. However, the discovery of compulsive sexual behaviour need not mark the end to a relationship, even if the activity has involved other people and perhaps many. If the sexual addict is willing to get help and address the problem, the relationship can be saved and can thrive in recovery.
Some individuals have the mistaken belief that if their spouse or partner has been unfaithful that they must get a divorce. Unfaithfullness is devastating, and spouses believe the acting out will occur again, and again. Rather than look for a way out, couples can look for ways to stay in relationships and put the pieces back together.
Addictions often develop over a lifetime. They are behaviours reinforced by years of acting out and powerful neorochemical highs. Recovery for many people is a series of starts and stops, and resolutions followed by relapses. Rather than seeing recovery as a steady uphill progression, it is more like a roller coaster with its ups and downs, yet all the time moving forward.
If an individual is committed to a program of recovery, even if he is continueing to have setbacks, there is reason to hope that he may be able to get free from all compulsive behaviour and live the rest of his life in sexual integrity. Do you lose hope?
When The Sexual Addict Refuses Help..........................
What about relationships where sexual addicts are not willing to get help? If your partner admits to having a problem with compulsive sexual behaviour but refuses to address that problem, it is time to consider ending the relationship.
Sometimes when a partner sets this boundary and the addict is convinced of the seriousness of the boundary, he may realise his only choice to save the relationship is to get help for his addiction. I have numerous cases where divorce papers had been filed, only to stop to legal proceedings when the sexual addict decides to get help.
This does not suggest threats of divorce or abandonment are to be used to manipulate sexual addicts into recovery. When a spouse reaches the point where she is getting ready to end the relationship, the decision is often to persuade the sexual addict to seek immediate help.
What about cases where the addicts continue to slip or relapse? This may also be the time to consider ending the relationship. If that happens, it is important to recognize that the addict's decision to put the addiction ahead of his partner resulted in forfeiting the relationship.
No-one does recovery perfectly. Unfortunately, amny have slips and relapses that punctuate their recovery. If steps are taken to rectify the situation and restore good recovery routines, the relationship is worth salvaging. If the sexual addict is not willing to do the work of reocvery, even after repeated opportunities to get help, it may be time to end the relationship. Moving on may mean leaving your spouse or partner trapped in his addiction. Therefore, your partner must accept that you will no longer allow yourself to be trumatized by continued acting out.
If this is the place you find yourself and you have given your partner repeated chances to get into recovery, but he refused or will not maintain program of sobriety, then you may feel that he has chosen his addiction over you. Ending the relationship is a difficult decision and one that you should make only after much soul searching and consulting with professionals and trusted friends. Life without your partner will be challenging and perhaps painful, but ask yourself, wouldn't that pain be less than remaining in the relationship if your partner's acting out never ended?
Often the sexual addict will do everything possible to save the relationship, when he realizes that the spouse is ready to end it. If the shock of the partner saying the relationship is over gets an addict into recovery, then he can be grateful that something was stronger than the power of addiction, and that was coming face to face with the loss of you and the relationship.
The Relationship is Over. What Went Wrong?.......................
In some cases the relationship was over before the partner knew the extent of the sposues addiction. Or the sexual addict announced that he had found someone who "really knows how to love me" and walked away from the relationship without trying to save it. Abrupt endings are devastating and leave lasting wounds.
Some individuals who are sexually addicted never get into recovery and continue to resist all offers of recovery. Their partners set boundaries, give ultimations, make impassionate pleas, and otherwise beg their partner to get into recovery and give the relationship a chance. But they find that they are powerless over their partners addictions and cannot bring them to recovery.
In other cases, recovery is not constant with some addicts and they continue to suffer slips and relapses. they make promises that they will stop their destructive behvaiour, but it never sticks. After a few sessions of therapy and a 12 step meetings, they declare themselves 'cured' and stop all recovery actions. The repeated relapses finally bring partners to the point of saying "Enough!!"
There are other relationships where the husband and the wife get into recovery but the relationship still does not work. For some cases there was too great of an imbalance in recovery; that is, one partner was well ahead of the other and the other never caught up. In some of these relationships, even though recovery appears to be going well for both, they cannot make the relationship work. The wounds of deciet are sometimes too deep to heal. In some cases, one or both partners are unable to move to a place of acceptance as a prelude to forgiveness so that healing can begin. There are some spouses hurt so much that they can never get to a place of healing.
It really does not matter what finally happened becuase the relationship is over. Wishing, hoping, crying, and pleading will not restore that which has been severed. If your relationship has ended, here are a few things about your future that you need to hear:
First, don't date until you have continued further in your own recovery journey. YOu need time to make sense of your feelings and concentrate on yourself. NO "rebound" relationship will provide the nurturing you now need. If you are dating, STOP immediately. You deserve to have time to take care of yourself. Life is not going to pass you by while you are concentrating on giving yourself what you need.
Second, you need time to heal. If you are not in therapy at present, start therapy immediately. You will need to do some intensive family-of-origin work, to work on childhood wounds that may be impacting your life today. This would also be a good time to find an EMDR therapist who can help you address your trauma issues.
It is especially important that you get professional help to determine the impact of the relationship with your former partner. You may be able to see some similarities in your former partner and other people with whom you have had relationships. In fact, some individuals are candid enough to admit that they seem to always end up with someone who is an addict or someone who is abusive to them. Addicts are often charming, persuasive, and focused on the person who is the object of their affections. If you have chosen an addict of any variety in any or perhaps every previous relatiosnhip, this would be a good time to asl yourself, "What do I need to do to heal, and quit living the same traumatic realtionship repeatedly?"
If this is you, you alone can change the next chapter of your life. You are the author of your future. No matter how long you have let others tell you how to live your life, you are free now to assume control of the events in your life. You deserve a healthy relationship. Do not settle for less!
This would also be a good time for you to cement relationships with other men or women who are healing from relationships that have damaged their self esteem. 12-Step organizations are important sources of support to individuals who have found themselves alone after the end of a relationship to a sexual addict. Even if there is not a 12-Step group for partners in your area, Co-SA online groups can be very beneficial.
( Or lovely groups like this here on DS.....lol)
Chapter 14
Page 177-179
Adventure in Recovery.................................
In the course of their recovery journey, I tell my clients that they will be able to look at themselves in the mirror and say, "YOu are a good person, " and know in their hearts that the words are true. Negative self talk that has plagued them since childhood gradually end and will be replaced with healing words. I believe recovery is truely an adventure. In the end, sexual addicts have a much fuller, richer, more meaningful life than if they had not had compulsive behaviours to concur.
Sexual Addiction recovery can be an adventure. As with many adventures, recovering from sexual addiction never stops. It continues throughout life. Sexual addicts never get to a point where all of their recovery work is done. They continue to face new challenges and additional parts of their character upon which to focus. Yet as long as they are living free from compulsive behaviour their addiction is behind them. Their journey of freedom continues and never has to stop.
As you continue through the many tasks of recovery, you will find challenges and numerous blessings. As you and your partner take this journey together, you will have the opportunity to work on some things that would have escaped your notice if it were not for addiction and recovery. In the Big Book of Alcoholics, in the section referred to as "the promises", it states that there will come a time when a person will "not regret the past nor wish to shut this door on it." While this seems unattainable, it becomes reality for many. Perhaps it is more fully realized when a couple takes the recovery journey together.
Certainly there are hurts and pains from the past that bring grief. There are things that recovering addicts regret. That regret is shared by their partners. Addiction wounds both the addicted and those who love them. It is a vicious cycle that can only be served by making a committment to do the work necessary to end all compulsive behaviour forever.
Recovery has many rewards. One is the ability to look back on a relationship that has grown in many ways not thought possible. Being in relationship with a sexual addict has its down sides for sure. But if the partner is doing solid recovery work and actively engaged to his or her own work, the relationship possesses a new dimension of richness that could not have come were it not for addiction and recovery.
The presence of sexual addiction in a relationship does not mean that a relationship must end. Nor does it mean that happiness must end. If both addict and the partner are willing to address the addiction, work on thier individual recoveries, and recover as a couple, there is every reason to hope for a good outcome for the relationship.
I am committed to counselling because I see miracles happen on a daily basis. I continually come meet individuals and couples who believe their happiness is at an end becuase of the compulsive sexual behaviour. But relationships do not always have to end.
I am constantly amazed at the changes that can take place in relationships through solid recovery work. I hear couples who have been in recovery several months state their relationship is better now than it has ever been. I have heard that enough times that I have come to expect that result when both are committed to doing whatever it takes to restore their relationship.
My desire for you and your partner is that you immerse yourself in recovery. I urge you to be willing to do the couragous and challenging work that is required. As Francis Bacon once said, "All rising to a great place is by a winding stair."
May your recovery journey of hope lead you to freedom.
About the Author
Page 203
Milton S Magness, is the founder and director of Hope & Freedom Counselling Services in Houston. He is a Certified Sex Addiction Therapist (CSAT) and a Lisensed Professional Counselor.
Dr Magness is on the board of directors of The Society for the Advancement of Sexual Health (SASH), formerly known as the President of the board of that organization. He studied with Dr Patrick Carnes, the foremost authority on sexual addiction, and had completed specialized study in the area of cybersex addiction. Dr Magness has led a multi-state research study that focused on cybersex behaviour and recovery among self-identified sex addicts. he is a frequent speaker at both professional and public events.
Should you wish to contact Dr Magness with questions about this book or for information on Hope & Freedom Counselling, you may write to him at milton.magness@hopeandfreedom.com or contact at (713) 630-0111.
Dr Magness lives in Housten, Texas and Canmore, Alberta, Canada.
Sheenre: I hope to get as decisive as you someday. As you can see from the last post I am doing a lot of sorting. I can see you did a lot of work after your first h so I have some catching up to do and yes you make sense.
Hugs to both
And, when I got to see the lies. Can I respond properly to lies? I don't think anyone can respond properly to a liar, until they know that person is a liar. And then they can respond by knowing what they're dealing with in reality. And they start looking for the truth...because they know that there is no truth coming from a liar. So, is it any surprise that what happens is we go looking for the truth? What should we be looking for...that they are suddenly truthful? That doesn't even make sense.
What is "respond properly" to someone hurting me? Smile and bear it? A person who knows that it's going to hurt lies...and that's why they lie. Because they know it's going to hurt...and they also know that no one will put up with being hurt and lied to. They know that they are going to pay for what they do at that point. And they don't want to. They want to do what they do, and they want to get away with it. So, they lie. Because they know the truth will bring the result of their action.
I think that I did and I do respond properly. You hurt me...you get to answer for that. I defend myself from the person doing the thing that hurts. What else would I do? I didn't...and I don't take the reins of his behavior...he does. And, I protect myself from more damage coming from his direction because he is clearly a danger to me. And if he can't stop...I CAN.
Should I be support him and pat him on the head because he won't control himself from hurting me? Or, if he knows he will, because he just can't help himself, that he won't choose the alternative, tell the truth, go away to do as he does, and leave my life alone? His lust just far greater than any care about what happens to me in all of this? Should I allow him to continue to hurt me for his good? I won't. That's my choice. I won't let anyone willfully hurt me and then do nothing about it. I did that before. I almost lost my life doing it. I will never do it again. It will stop because he stops. Or I will stop, and get him out of my life where he can't hurt me anymore.
Or in reality, should he be supporting me? I didn't hurt him. He hurt me. And, so if I support him...am I supporting his hurting me some more? I'm not going to support anyone who is hurting me and knows it. To me...my personal opinion...is that I would think I was very sick to do such a thing. And I would then feel like a co-dependent allowing him to continue hurting me. That is what I think...and that is what I feel. And, so no...I will not support his "slips" or his failure either. Slip...and it's a very long fall!
I think that if he needed help...and maybe he did, he should have gone and got it and got a grip on his life....before he did irreparable damage. He didn't. When I found he hadn't, I took over the reins of MY life. I told him if you stay here..you will go get help...and you will stop right now...or you can leave...today and we'll be done with this game you've played.
He had to make a choice. Get to a place where he can stop hurting me or leave. I sent him to get help...because I'm not willing to live in that kind of hurtful environment. If he failed to be able to do that..and stop...then I wanted him to leave...get out of my life...and I still do. I lived in an abusive relationship before. And, I'm not ready to live in one again. Apparently, without my knowledge, I did. But I WILL not live with it and be aware. Why would I do that?
And, if he's still a liar, I will find it. And then, I will know that there is no excuse at all, no reasoning, no misunderstanding. I will see that he has made his choice. And, I won't ever be put in the position for him to hurt me again. I won't do it. It isn't worth it.
Cyn, you said, "and the only bottom line I had was infidelity." Yep, me too. I can and will handle most anything...lots of coping skills...but no one gets to step on my toes there. Not without a penalty. Alcohol isn't infidelity. And, it IS a physical, chemical addiction. Also, it doesn't affect me personally very much. He goes to work every day...always has. He doesn't verbally, nor physically abuse me. He's quite the happy drunk. So, do I really care? Nope...not really. Our lives would be better without it. But, it doesn't make it an entirely unhappy life.
For me, infidelity does do that. It makes a life of abuse. A life of unhappiness. A shameful and dishonorable life. And, I'm not willing to tolerate that. I don't care if he's sick....or not...or whatever...I won't live with that. That IS my choice. And he, nor anyone else, is worth the pain that brings. Not for me. I can handle a happy drunk. I will not tolerate a sexual devient.
You said, "Yet, here I am trying to work it out in my mind to be able to stay married and live happily with myself and not compromising my values. I always had the same value/ same boundary/ same consequence yet I am staying for now yet to still have the same value/ boundary and consequence."
I don't think that you are in the same situation. You are getting lots of feedback from outside sources that lead you to believe there is a chance. And, you are reacting to that feedback. You want to know if there is a chance. That isn't bad...it's a chance.
I don't think that you are compromising your values. I think that they still stand just as they were. I think that you have demanded action on his part. And that you are weighing his response to that demand. What he does will dictate the end of it. I really think that if he fails, your values will rule. In fact, I'm sure they will.
And, I think that you are only offering a last chance...just like me. My boundaries are the same as yours. And my feelings the same too...except that I KNOW this is his LAST chance. I know that I wanted to make sure that he got the point of exactly how I feel about this, and exactly what I will do about how I feel. I wanted to talk about what is REALLY going on here.
And, I wanted him to understand the decision he will force for me by following his lust. I wanted him to understand some things first. I love you...but I hate that and I won't tolerate it. It hurts...and here's why. So, if you decide that you must, then know the cost. I'd rather live without your good qualities than live with this bad one. I will leave to protect myself from the harm you are causing. I will be sad about it...but I will. And, you will know with no doubt whatsoever that you are choosing to end this relationship if you choose to do that again. I am giving you the knowledge of the real world, and the results. The choice is yours. Mine is already made...I won't live with you if you do that.
I know that if he fails to control himself, I will remove myself from all contact with him. I did that with my x...and I will do it again. And, I know that it was my choice to decide whether or not I wanted to give him this final chance. His response is far different than it has ever been...and that IS the only reason he is here now. Because if it hadn't been...he would have already been asked to leave. I KNOW that.
Reply 13, is not offense from me, but me being respectful of you and the importance of respecting the processing process. I can't fix your problem, or anyones, but i can offer whats helped me, as it may help you further. Thats all. My short answer was more reflective of it being 1.24am here and h getting cranky with me cause i was still on the computer.
Its healthy and vital we reflect on ourselves, and process things, is i guess my main message. Just make sure we're not distorting things in a negative way, and then we spouses will have good emotional health to deal with the SA bullshit more clearly. And remember to............
STOP............................When you have a strong negative emotion
REPLACE.......................If this is NOT TRUE, what TRUE BELIEF should i REPLACE it with?
AIM:.................................Are your stress levels going up, and why?
RESPOND.....................With action if there is an issue. Put into practice behaviour that is the opposite of the distortion, or that is in agreement with the rephrase.
You have been here a while Sheenre, and you've come some distance that i have seen in that time. H has been in recovery all the time you've been here, that you and i know of. I know your story well, i know how you are a survivor, and how you have felt through all of this, all the pain and betrayal you have felt.
So separate from him and his recovery, What would you say is your current sticking point in your recovery? Where do you find yourself? I hope you don't mind me asking.
I thought that I had long been able to bounce out of things fairly quickly. Life does bring lots of down things along the way. This definitely isn't quickly. I was far too busy and focused earlier in my life to stall like this along the way. Ha! I had far too many other challenges to meet for taking very much time to ponder the other possibilities.
I often think that if I had known this path in the last couple of years, I'd have taken another. This definitely is the road less traveled. I had some goals at the onset of this. And that was to first figure out why this hurt so bad. What were the feelings inside me that were creating rage, anger, sorrow, depression, and anxiety. I don't like feeling out of control. And, I was definitely that.
And, I needed to know how to stop this feeling in my life. I realized that I had become a victim to secret agendas and trickery once again. And, I needed to know what I might do, if anything, to clear my life of it? Tired of it! I wanted it over once, and for all times. I needed to know what was necessary for me to do to stop getting surprised and hurt by the actions of others. And how to change things in my life so I would never feel that way again. Well, I guess it might take a lot to surprise me at this point. So, that is something.
I'm still not sure how I can prevent ever feeling that way again. I am working on that part. Stainless steel barriers? Ironclad? What? I so wanted to remain open and loving in life, and now it seems impossible to ever do that again. Disallowed. Trust no one. Take no prisoners. Ha! Seems to me like anytime there are outside factors, like Hs, there are huge problems to deal with. Very tiring. Drains my energy so much to deal with bull. Like dragging around a cement block. Tired!
Wow did I get a shock. What I was REALLY feeling and why. To see what had really been going on around me. To examine my life up to that point, how I got here in this place. And, how to get out of it. Certainly looked like I had made some grave errors along the way. I needed to know exactly what those errors were. Didn't want to make them again. I do know most of that now I think. Don't believe anything that you hear...and only half of what you do see? Ha...that's a joke.
And, then to place adequate internal guards against ever feeling that way again. I wanted restore peace to my life. I had prayed just prior to it happening that God enlighten me what was wrong with my life. Shouldn't have done that? Ha!
I'm very surprised at how badly this all hurt me. Wouldn't have believed it without it happening. I thought I had become rather impervious to outside input. And totally relient on inner fortitude. So, when I dug into my own feelings for a change, I was rather surprised at what I found.
Holes in the armour. Not enough guards. Not enough attention to how I was feeling. Too many coping skills in place. Too much consideration for others. Not enough for myself. And, I had prided myself on being able to evaluate situations, see all sides, make decisions for the betterment of all. Wow, I goofed that up. I should have just looked to my own interests, and let others tend their own. I might have been far happier in the longhaul. I might well be looking back at lots more fun and lots less tolerance. I learned that too much sacrifice of my time and energy is not a good thing as I once thought it was.
So, now...at this time. Rage gone. Anger in control. Sorrow worthless..and predominately spent. I think that at this point in time I'm evaluating where to take my life from here. I've just sort of been treading water and pondering now where to? Everything kind of came to an abrupt halt. All of the things I worked so hard at to attain are done. My daughter is raised. Job done. I am retired. So, no career to tend. My marriage..well, we already know about that. So, the retirement plans I had in mind don't seem to be panning out.
I'm not sure just yet what path to take. My energy has been so far drained through all of this that mostly I just do what I can on any given day. Still somewhat tired both emotionally and physically. Just sort of mentally and physically resting on my haunches. So tired! What a horrible drain this has been. And, given the triggers, often still is. I hate dealing with that. And, I also know that it's inevitable. I once dealt with it better than I do now. Tired of the bull! That is a cement block to drag...a drag.
I have been looking at possibilities of what might feel good to do. Maybe using some of those old career learned skills for personal satisfaction. I have pondered beginning a book about this "path less traveled." I feel so sorry for anyone just finding the path they're on. But, I had hoped to get past it, conquer the thing, and then write. Perhaps that day never comes though. So? I do think I'll try though. Nothing ventured...nothing gained?
I have plans to insist of myself that I set aside more and more time to do things that I like to do. I enjoy painting. I enjoy photography. I enjoy school. The challenge of learning new things. I enjoy gardening...which I do now. I enjoy meditation and silence. I enjoy music and singing. So, I know that I need to move farther and farther that direction.
I have been actively separating me from my titles in life. Wife. Mother. Daughter. Sibling. Just getting to me...who I am..what sounds good to me...outside all of those responsible titles. What would I do if I had none of those responsibilities to tend? There is the answer to my future. Because really, all those titles are gone now. Lost in time and circumstance.
I am seeking what joy I can find now. Trying to overcome the obstacles to that. I fear repressing how I really feel. I fear manipulating what I really feel. I think that I did a lot of that...and it came to no good end. I just found out what I really do feel. So if I feel bad. Well, ok. That's ok. At least it is feeling. And, if I feel good, I embrace that in the moment.
I do dream though Trina...day dream. About what it would feel like to go back somewhere far in time when I had none of these weights. When I felt hopeful and energetic about the possiblilities of life. I think that is far tougher to do now because I'm old now. And, what possibilities are there for an old lady whose life is already substantially spent? I have to overcome that feeling of age and inertia. What does an old lady do? I've never been one before. So, I've got to figure that out. Ha!
Sometimes, I can step backwards in time and feel that youthful mentality. A long life. Full of possibilities. Seems looking back that I've worked hard through most of it to survive. And, then I think that's over now. It's done. I've done what I planned to do even though it didn't turn out as I hoped. And so, what is next? All the plans I had for retirement are in the dust. And, so it's regroup time. A new plan. A new path. Just haven't figured that out yet.
No i am sure i read somewhere you are in your mid 50's, which is NOT old! Have you not heard, 50's is the new 40's......hey that is only mid life. So after a tumultuous few years, you are at a point where you are getting ready to put it behind you, and look for the next chapter of your life. Your brain is quite active, that can not be denied, so it would have at least 20 years minimum of challenge in it......retire......pfft!!
Is there something that you have always wanted to do, something of passion you have always enjoyed interest in? When you find it, you might find joy also. But over? NEVER.....you know me, nauseatingly in your face with eternal optimism :)
A new path, sounds exciting!!!!..........................and to just be that extra annoyingly helpful, maybe this was never the new path, but the original path that has been set all along for you, as "the powers that be", know you can handle it, for you are a survivor. Maybe you will see the path, when they think you are ready to see it.
I am finding myself in a batty mood tonight, i might leave you alone before you biff me one......lol
Not trying to antagonise you, some genuine with a slice of humour :)
And sexually, we could go through those changes together too. This is NOT what I had in mind as the beginning of our new freedom of life without children again. This is another loss that I am grieving because this sucks and I am so thankful for Trina the eternal optimist that says I am not Old cause I sure feel older and more worn out. A little of my spark gone. I wish I was in my thirties facing this as I should have been had I known the truth. I think I would be making different choices. So perhaps that is God's way of having me not find out for so long so that I would try harder to make recovery work.
I think that in contrast, I'm a realist at this point in time. Denial...I hope in the trash forever. I fear that a lot. I guard against it. I've heard so much about "we knew all along" and we were "in denial." And they got away with it because "we" are weird...and we are weak...and emotionally ill. We were burying what is real. We contributed to this trainwreck by just being. We ignored it, even if we weren't aware of it at the time. That makes me feel very crazy. Because I really didn't know it that I'm aware of. If that is true...and assuming that it is.... if my life was based on 100%denial...crazy as hell...and I don't want any more of it. If denial brought optimism, and hope...and it is a fault...then where does the optimism come from now? More denial? I don't know. Still confusing.
I often feel that my optimism and boundless energy to overcome just seems so futile and degraded at this point. Seems disgustingly naive on my part. Or so it sounds to me when I hear that I created this mess. If so, then what shall I hope for? Maybe I do miss that most...the naivity...trusting...optimism...hope...whatever allowed me to continue through all of the crap of life....plugging along...aiming for good. Boundless energy, boundless coping with problems, doing what I thought was the right stuff. Couldn't I see that it was going nowhere? Or here?
No, I'm not dead yet....well...not substantially anyway...ha! My mind is active...far too active. I realize that. Struggling to get out of the black holes of denial...or reality..or both? I think I liked the anger better...so much energy there. I never gave up my decisions, nor my path, to anyone...well not for a very long time anyway. I made those decisions based on what I knew at the time. So, if they were wrong, and they were wrong, I couldn't have done better with the facts at hand. Now, if it were possible, and it's not, to know what I know now and make those decisions, then perhaps the outcome would be different?
But, this one...well...it isn't my path. It wasn't my choice, nor my aim. I don't feel that I designed it. Though, in retrospect...I can see the errors that I made....now that I do know more of the facts...the other side of this story. I should have kicked his sneaky little ass a long time ago. Ah, well there is still time? Can't be kind in this world...can't be considerate...can't give lee way....nor the benefit of the doubt.
Must KNOW what the other person is doing. If that is true, then I probably should have walked away when this occured the very first time...or spent the last 19 years kicking his ass every day. I was lots younger then...and did have lots more hope and vigor and optimism for the future. I didn't know I needed boxing gloves. I'd have unpacked them lots sooner.
And, at least now, I do know it would never happen again. Like it could anyway...not at this age and time of life. So, lesson learned, far too late? I hope that my lesson will help someone else have a better life though. Then maybe it is worthwhile. Doesn't feel very worthwhile on a personal level at this time. There are benefits. I'm not so sure that they outweigh the costs though. Remains to be seen?
In fact, I probably need to shut it off and just "be" for a while I suspect. Too many mountains and too much fatigue, particularly mentally, which of course affects the physical. Don't feel very well either way. I think that either end of that spectrum, mental to physical, I have taken a beating and I'm so tired. That's what I feel most...very tired now. My energy reserves got totally depleted...and I just feel whipped. I've got up so many times, it should be easy. It isn't easy. It seems the more times the battle ensued over this issue in my life, the more beatings, the less energy left to expend?
I just came to a dead end street in my life...smack against a brick wall. The life that I planned feels very over to me. So, I'm not sure what to plan for now...or that planning anything is just more folly. I had lots of reasons to work really hard and climb many mountains. I can look back and see many mountains climbed...obstacles scaled. Others failed. That is the way of life I know. This one really knocked me down. And, I've yet to get up. Still struggling to my emotional feet. I wonder at times if I'll ever get there again. May be far late in the game for that. I don't know. I try. I'm sure I will as long as I'm alive and able.
I am 58, very soon to be 59, feel like 100 years old...so that is old to me. I don't feel like I ever had a young day one. First, my parents restrained my every move. No freedom. Then, my feeling of responsibility to marriage crippled my life. No freedom. I felt what "should" be. I didn't need anyone to tell me what is right. I knew what was right. Maybe I was wrong...it isn't right...and it wasn't right. I shouldn't have given up so much of my life and my fun to enhance the life of others...of anyone at all. Where the h is the balance here? I fail to find it just yet.
I look at my hs life...his past...just as an example. He spent it having his fun at any cost. Drinking...partying...at one time drugging...then porning...and lusting....playing in a band while I took care of our child, went to work, school at night. Yahoo! Good for him. He has much youthful nonsense to look back on. Lots of fun and good times for him. Must be nice? Wow...that was a fun ride?
Now, it's time to grow up and be responsible? Because I have to? I can give up my lustful fun now and give what little is left of my manhood to my wife? Yeah team! That pisses me off! Sorry...but it does. Well, now he's far past fifty, his sexual life spent. He spent it as he well pleased. And now, that he's caught, he wants to give me what is left of it? And what is that? Hmmmm....good...I do still have some anger...so energizing.
I have mountains to look back on. Climbing...effort...work...coping with crap. I feel like I spent my life trying to do what was right at any cost. Not a lot of "fun" in that. Coping? Not the same word as fun at all?
Now, I need to find out what that's like...fun. I don't know what that's like. To feel free of responsibility, like he was. Free of marriage responsibility, like he was. Free of motherhood responsibility, my girl is raised. Free of responsibility period.
I'm far past family...and career...and the vigor of youth. I am really very tired now. I had hoped at this time in life to be looking back at life well spent. A marriage of many years with fond memories to enjoy in old age. Relaxed times. Times to have some serenity and some fun...finally. Hard work done. Time to cruise a while. And, then I get this? Work hard. Do the right stuff. Get er done. And, then spend the aged years relaxed and enjoying the work of youth. Instead, I get black holes of irresponsible nonsensical insenstive crap. Makes me mad. I admit it. And, I suspect it always will.
I know that I have to find a way to energy again. Something to outweigh the dread....and take me away from the marriage scene....the responsibility...the crap. Something that "I" can do. I know now that "I" can't make a good marriage, a good family life, a family future. I already tried that and it didn't work. So, I do know what doesn't work. That is an advantage. Anthing that is a "we" is a possible failure out of my control.
So, I need to aim for what "I" can do alone now, where I have all the control, and where it is worth the effort....and maybe fun too? I'm not sure what that is just yet. I know what I wanted. I feel that is ruined and impossible. I don't know what I want now. I'm still pondering that, while I fill up the days with things to do that have some positive impact.
I hear you thinkin Trina...don't wait too long...don't put it off...don't waste another day...get on with it...figure it out. Thanks for that! I hear your optimism, my other side, loud and clear. I just don't know where to go from here yet.
"Now, it's time to grow up and be responsible? Because I have to? I can give up my lustful fun now and give what little is left of my manhood to my wife? Yeah team! That pisses me off! Sorry...but it does. Well, now he's far past fifty, his sexual life spent. He spent it as he well pleased. And now, that he's caught, he wants to give me what is left of it? And what is that? Hmmmm....good...I do still have some anger...so energizing."
That has really nagged at me lately too. There is a time in a man's life when it doesn't work like it used to and mine was given away. That still pisses me off too bc we aren't 30 or 40 with years left to make it up. And I have been perimenopausal (I hope this is not too much information but it is true for females) and the last year or two I have been very horny because of the hormones spiking and lowering. His sexual needs were met. I realize not with intimacy but he wasn't looking for that. Pisses me off too so I will put that on my therapy list to address. I find a great sadness in this but also slight dark humor. He wanted sex and I was craving sex. I guess I'll call that "recovery humor" that only you guys would get. i think SheenRe records that as,,, Ha!
And I'm sorry...I do know just how you feel....or nearly anyway....at least the same ballpark. You aren't alone. I often feel like taking up rollerskating...ON HIS HEAD! A funny for you too Grlly...love ya as well!
Back around twenty years ago when this crap got thick (meaning I found harcore porn hidden in our dirty, stinkin' chicken pen where he used them to masturbate) my perspective was quite different. I was pushing forty. I had my daughter when I was around 34...and she was around four, so I was 38...hmmm memory...I'm not dead yet!
I had things to do...important things...like raise a daughter (I LOVED that part), in fact, as it turned out, I was far more concerned about her future than mine, soooo....work on a career, further my education...move onward and upward....get smarter...get stronger...get educated...and more financially able. Get better able to take care of myself...and my daughter if need be...because I didn't trust him "too" much anymore. I mean really...who could? And, his antics at that time removed a lot of my attachments to him...in many ways. I did give him the chance though...and the benefit of the doubt...he was young...inexperienced. Well...with some things anyway...ha!
But, I knew I had lived with a virtual devil and made it through twelve years...so what could this mini-version really do? Play with porn? That had been done by #1. Adultry? Done by #1 too. Play with my head? Well, I'm not up for playing. Beat me? I wouldn't advise a go at that...not then...and not now!
He does after all have to sleep sometimes? And though I can't rollerskate anymore, I do know how to throw a skate....HA! All that takes is strike number one...even threaten to hit me...and there is no return from there EVER! See, I did learn something from #1...and I'm not likely to ever forget it either. Or anything else that creep did. It doesn't hurt me...but I did acquire a grave intolerance for bull! I had less twenty years ago. And now, I have even less. I do learn...really! Yeah, I know...so I'm slow!
Well, I do know what #2 could do now...don't I? I had learned to trust him quite a lot again along that fifteen or so years. That was a HUGE mistake on my part. BAD SHEENRE! Reallllly dumb! I should have known better right? Well, apparently I didn't. I thought he got the point when I filed for divorce back then. I decided to talk to him and give it a go. I felt it was best for our child. I didn't check on him. I didn't examine him. I stayed the good wife. And, I gave him his rope....freedom to do as he wished. And, he hung himself quite well I think...HA! I didn't hang him...he did....until he choked himself out!
While doing all of that I was working on getting over the damage of h number one, while I faced the damage of h number two. I've had PTSD since #1...nightmares...panic attacks, anxiety, and periodic depression for all of those years....and all of these too...thanks to numbers 1 and 2! Geeeez, I wonder why?
I felt the need to prepare myself just in case he dumped on me. Well, he did, later rather than sooner, I just didn't know it for long while. He did say there were about eight years in there that he didn't play...at least not with photos or real women either. I'm sure he had stored quite enough images to suffice?
Well, not really. When he got a computer at work and we bought one for our home...party on! Let the games begin! Lying, sneaking, CRAP! I honestly didn't know it. How dumb and naive can one possibly be? Well, hello SheenRe! Silly girl! I believed he had learned to love and respect me. Well, at least respect me? Hmmm! Nuf jokes. Recovery sarcasim? My forte! If I didn't laugh once in while...the skates would fly?
I have been past menopause for many years. Since my mid-forties. So, those pikes should be gone...but they're not. And, that pisses me off...at me...would be so much nicer if it was gone entirely and I could just forget about it. And genetics...really sucks...my mom...still has sexual desire at ninety! Crap!!! No sexual drive at all...aha...a goal? And rollerskate throwing classes...hmmmmm???? Kidding! Really!
H number two hurt me far more than h number one. I really did trust him more than I thought! Imagine that! That's what hurt so bad! And he asks for my trust now? Well, that may be a long time a comin'! I may be dumb...somewhat slow...but entirely insane? Well, maybe?
I had suspected for a long time that h number 1 was a class-A jerk. So, finally getting the KNOW was no shock...just profound relief! Yeah....I really wasn't crazy...he was just a philandering jerk as I had already suspected! Yeah! When I caught him, he had the nerve to tell me "you can't divorce me...you can't prove it...and unless you can prove adultry...your religion won't allow you to divorce me." Hmmm! I told him "wrong conclusion. I know you're guilty...and even if I didn't...I really don't even like you anymore...and that's quite enough reason for me now. God can punish me if he sees fit. And, I think His punishment would be far less than living with you. He's all heart...and you...well...we both know what you are!"
So, yeah, I know I'm a hard case. I'm really sick of this nonsense! Up to the gills! If being nice, not conflicting, giving the benefit of the doubt, making peace, and sometimes ignoring his smartass was co-dependent...I don't think I can be classified that any longer. My psych says no...not a chance. Far too assertive...even agressive..for that. So, that's one good thing...right? Maybe more like co-nada! You abide by the rules here...little teenaged fifty-plus-year-old- boy...or...you get sent to your room....somewhere far...far...away from me!
And, as for me, well, I am tired...but I'm not dead yet. And, last time I checked I still have a mean left hook! And a thumpin uppercut too! Ha! There's an ol saying, "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned." Well, someone certainly pissed off their mate didn't they? Not a great idea. One of the guys on the SA board said, "the goodbook says that it's better to live out in the street than in the house with a contentious woman." I told him...then don't do something she needs to contend with...and you can live comfortable in the house? Ha! Funny...but true!
This is not going to be you, and let me tell you why. Because you are still here and you are still looking for it, you are still trying. Okay it has not been as quick for you as for others, but you have had double the trauma to overcome (the ex factor). The fact that you haven't given up, says you still have hope.
It is true that some people do just grow apart in a relationship, and this is a place anyone of us could find ourself afterwards, even me. Together or not, i think you will still find healing, because god damn it, you are still searching (you are the master of questions!), you haven't given up once. You seek, and you will find. This is you. Its just a tad slower than you would like.